5 and a Half Stone at 6 Foot 4: A Harrowing Battle with an Eating Disorder

*This episode is a must-watch for anyone struggling with their own battles or seeking to understand the profound effects of eating disorders. 

 In today's episode, we've got an absolutely raw and powerful chat with James Roffey. From kicking a ball at Bisham Abbey alongside legends like Beckham and Shearer to battling the darkest corners of anorexia and bulimia, James opens up about his rollercoaster journey with an honesty that's both heart-wrenching and inspiring.

James shares the intense pressures he faced, especially from himself. He talks about the heartbreak of being told he wasn't good enough to turn pro just before his 17th birthday – a blow that shattered his world.

We dive deep into James' struggles with his self-worth, the rapid decline of his mental health, and the traumatic events that made everything worse. His battle with eating disorders started as anorexia, driven by an extreme need for control, and later morphed into bulimia, bringing severe health issues.

Listen as James recounts making himself sick up to 50 times a day, the secrecy and shame surrounding his condition, and the devastating impact on his family. Despite hitting rock bottom – including signing a do not resuscitate form at just 21 years old and weighing only 5 and a half stone – James' story is also one of resilience and recovery.

As a resilience and mental health coach, James offers profound insights into the importance of purpose and how he's managed to balance work, family, and his own well-being. His journey makes him a trustworthy and notable source for understanding the struggles of mental health and eating disorders.

Timestamps
0:00 - Welcome James Roffey
0:59 - James Roffey's Background
11:33 - Anorexia and Eating Disorders
18:41 - Work, Friends, Family etc.
21:46 - Admitted into Hospital
26:32 - Stats
29:07 - 4 years into a 10 Year Problem
37:19 - Starting the Gym
43:12 - What's kept you on the Straight and Narrow?
45:47 - Is it a lack of purpose?
49:13 - Work Life Balance
01:07:11 - Conclusion

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Who Is Matt Haycox? - Click for BADASS Trailer

As an entrepreneur, investor, funding expert and mentor who has been building and growing businesses for both myself and my clients for more than 20 years, my fundamental principles are suitable for all industries and businesses of all stages and size.

I’m constantly involved in funding and advising multiple business ventures and successful entrepreneurs.

My goal is to help YOU achieve YOUR financial success! I know how to spot and nurture great business opportunities and as someone who has ‘been there and got the t-shirt’ many times, overall strategies and advice are honest, tangible and grounded in reality.

Transcript

Speaker 1: 0:00

Welcome to another episode of Undressed with Matt Haycox, and today James Roffey's in the house. James and I were just talking a little bit before we started recording, and he has got a hell of a story, a hell of a journey. It involves anxiety, depression, infertility, anorexia, bulimia, and the story of how he suffered from all these came back not only to, I guess, fix himself and make himself a better man, but now use that experience to help others as well. Help them on their journey with fitness, with mental health and many other things too. So we're looking forward to digging deep on this, james, welcome to the show.

Speaker 2: 0:36

Pleasure. Thanks for having me on.

Speaker 1: 0:37

How are you enjoying Dubai? I'm in love.

Speaker 2: 0:40

I'm in love, as I say, I came out here in November last year for my first time and counting down the days to come back. Any excuse to come back now?

Speaker 1: 0:49

so yeah it sucks everybody in, and I think particularly in the fitness space and the personal development which obviously you're in. It's a great place for that too. Obviously I've given a couple of cliff notes of your story and your journey, but set the scene, let's, you know, take us back to the beginning, when you know. When did it start to go wrong for you and what happened from there.

Speaker 2: 1:12

Yeah, early on, obviously, like it was from the age of seven, it was kind of mapped out that I was going to be a professional footballer and I'm sure there's probably loads of listeners already have that story of that one person. They know they're going to be a footballer, they're going to make it um, and seemingly that was that was my life. Obviously I I followed in my dad's footsteps. My dad was a, was a goalkeeper, um, like semi-pro um, and obviously I saw him play and wanted to emulate my dad, my dad's, like my, my role model in life, um, in every, in every aspect was?

Speaker 1: 1:41

was there a pressure and expectation as well, or was it just that you genuinely enjoyed it?

Speaker 2: 1:47

I loved it, but I think my biggest pressure came from me. Obviously my dad was. He was never pushy but he was very judgmental because I think he knew the ability that I had. So if I fell below the standards that he thought I'm at then obviously I would get a rollicking, but I don't think it was ever. He never pushed me to the point where I didn't want to do it.

Speaker 2: 2:10

I think I lived and breathed football. I still do. It's still probably my biggest hobby. Obviously this is like my passion now, but obviously the football has been my, has been something that I've always done. So obviously I started playing for the team that he played for like a local team, and then got scouted by my town, then my county, and then I got picked up by Charlton Athletic who obviously at the time were in the championship or League One, whatever it was at the time, and obviously they, they, I just went, went for a trial, got signed at seven um and that was the next 10 years of my life. So every season they renewed the contract, renewed the contract, renewed the contract, um.

Speaker 2: 2:57

At 13 my little claim to fame was obviously I trained at uh Bisham Abbey, at England's training ground, so I got to play on the pitch next to David Beckham, alan Shearer, michael Owen and despite my accent, I'm a big Liverpool fan. I was kind of the black sheep of the family. My whole family are Arsenal fans and I wanted to be different and it was like to see the people that you just aspire to be like playing football next year. It was like just crazy experience at such a young age. And also you've got coaches and your teammates are saying like you're gonna make it, you're gonna make it.

Speaker 2: 3:29

Um. And then fast forward to to just before my 70th birthday, when you were going to sign a professional contract. It was you're not good enough, that's it. It was put down to like my height, despite the fact now I'm six foot four. Um, I didn't start growing until I was about 18, like as the late, late developer, which again we'll come to that later on. There were reasons for that, um, yeah, and it was just a, like a checklist of things uh, is he tall enough? No, he's not good enough, then that's it. So it was like 10 years of my time and it was thanks for time.

Speaker 1: 4:04

Go back to what you were doing before and and was that the only route that you could have taken?

Speaker 2: 4:08

then I mean, could you have gone and tried, tried with some other clubs and tried different routes, or I think obviously, looking at it now, there's a lot of aftercare and there's a there's a lot of feeder club systems in place. Um, there wasn't for for me there was no, like you're not good enough here, but we have access to these clubs or we can put you on this, this course of whatever, nothing. It was literally go back to what you were doing, which when you're 17 and all you've known is training four days a week and football, so you're like a match day on a weekend. Go back to what you know. That's all I knew. Um, and I just felt it was the. I had a very privileged upbringing, like never had any, any issues, any, yeah, any, any trauma, so to speak, and that was my first real trauma and it absolutely ruined me. Um, like I felt like I'd let my parents down.

Speaker 1: 5:06

What did your dad say? I mean, I know you said he gives you a bollocking when you don't come up to scratch. What did he say about this?

Speaker 2: 5:12

It wasn't meant to be. That's my like, my dad's, my dad's like motto in life was like if you give your all and there's nothing more, you try and cover every angle and you don't get the outcome you want. It wasn't meant to be. But in my head I thought that was just like a polite, like tap on the back, like don't worry about it. But deep down I thought that they just thought that I was a failure. Um, and again at 17, I didn't, I just internalized it. I I assumed it. Therefore it was fact. I didn't speak about it, I didn't ask them. How do you feel? I just took the burden on my shoulders and I went back to school.

Speaker 2: 5:55

I was entering in my first year of A-levels, obviously being just done, my GCSEs, and obviously, again, I was known as the guy that was going to make it. That was my identity at school. I was the popular. Again, that was a. I was known as the guy that was going to make it. That was my identity at school. I was the, the popular kid, that was the football guy.

Speaker 1: 6:10

And then coming back and saying Was that a pressure to walk back into? I mean, were people awful taking the piss, or supportive?

Speaker 2: 6:18

I don't think people took the piss, I think it was just like that. I just lost my my worth, like when you're at school. It's like if you're the, if you're the good-looking guy, you're the popular guy, like I was the football guy and it's like to have that for like six or seven years and then it be taken away. It's like I've almost felt like a bit of a fraud, like the thing that made me me wasn't there anymore. So who am I? I don't really have anything, um. So that was difficult. And then, obviously, I think like I was never. I went to a grammar school, um, but I was never academically gifted. Uh, my friends used to. I couldn't understand how my friends could go out as soon as I turned 16. They were out every weekend and like house parties and stuff, and yet when it comes to like revision didn't revise and they'd get all A's and it's just like how? Like? How is that even possible? Because I had tutors, extra tuition, and I was still like scraping my grades, um. And obviously, when it got to my A levels, I did, uh, I got a, c, a, d and two E's, um, and one of the E's was in business studies and obviously, when my dad owns his own, owned his own security company. So he's like he's sold it now and semi-retired. My brother did business studies at uni. You know, it's like just I don't know what I'm going to do, so I'll just do what my brother and my dad have done. So I had to do business studies and obviously getting an E at grammar school was like unheard of. So I was like what can I do to? Can I repeat the year? Like not with those grades? I was like I have to do business studies. It's like you can leave then. So I had to leave in my head I had to leave, I had to do business studies.

Speaker 2: 7:53

And so again, like less than six months later, from being the football guy going to be a professional footballer to then leaving school, leaving my friends, going to college, which was the drop in the academic level from going to a grammar school to college was vast. Um, so I did like a two-year diploma there to get enough UCAS points to go to uni. And again, I didn't really try but I got like 90 odd percent for the two years and it was just yeah, that was as a bit of a flex, it was all right, but in terms of the enjoyment factor. I didn't want to be there. I probably I probably come across like a bit of a twat, like I didn't want to be there. I shouldn't be there, I should have been at school. So therefore I was probably like the, the nerdy kid did my work when I did my work when I um, and then, but during, during college, I think I think I just I started in the in the September term and then my mum's mum, so my nan, had sold a house in London to come and live with us.

Speaker 2: 8:58

Um, I think my, my granddad had died a few years previous and she didn't want to be on her own, she didn't like what was happening in London with the amount of crime, and so she sold a house to come and come and live with us. And while the work was being that, had a separate annex built inside of a house and before um, before that work was finished, she got diagnosed with cancer in january and she passed away at the beginning of march. Um, obviously they. When she was diagnosed, it was obviously terminal, it was everywhere. Um, so they sent her home. She had, like palliative care, so, like Macmillan, nurses would come and came to the house, obviously just to keep her comfortable, um, but that rate of decline was it wasn't even just like daily, it was like hourly.

Speaker 2: 9:38

I'd go to college, I'd come back and she'd be like in an even worse state. And I think the think when she died that was the three things that happened in the space of just over a year. That completely fucked my head up. I just couldn't deal with what was happening to me, again, from someone that had no previous traumas to deal with. So it's not like I was easing into life. It was just within a year. I'd gone from being the professional footballer to nothing to being with my mates all planning on going to uni together to nothing. And then obviously my nan. Again, I couldn't help her because the doctors couldn't help her. In hindsight, but still I seemingly took that on my shoulders as well.

Speaker 2: 10:26

Um, and when she died, obviously my, my mum then lost both her parents. Um, and I remember at a funeral when my mum turned into me and like hugging me, like inconsolable, saying like I don't have any parents, like what am I going to do? And it was just like what the fuck can you say? There's nothing you can say.

Speaker 2: 10:43

And again I just took like it became a taboo subject talking about my nan, and then I just internalised everything the football, the school, obviously, the death of my nan and I just punished myself. I think that was the easiest way to. I started to run. I'd never been a runner and I just started to run and run and run and, with that competitive nature that obviously I had from football, I wanted to be the best runner that I could be. So like it started out just like anything like running for half an hour, then an hour, and then that read to like two hours, three hours, and it got to a point where I couldn't run anymore and I don't know what clicked in my head, but I decided to cut back on what I was eating. I don't know why.

Speaker 1: 11:31

This was a conscious decision. It was you know you? I mean, I know nothing about anorexia and bulimia, but I guess I tend to get the impression people think they're fat. You know that they look fat even when they're not, and that's why they stop eating because you think, shit, I need to have less calories here. I mean, it was that kind of a thing that that came later.

Speaker 2: 11:51

The body, the body dysmorphia, came, came later. I think at the minute, at the time, it was just self-sabotage. It was like I felt, so I couldn't talk about my nan, so I couldn't vocalize how I felt or even ask my mum, because anytime you spoke about my nan she cried. So it's like listen, don't talk about it, I don't want to upset her. Like I didn't talk about I still thought the football thing was me, I was a failure, I'd let everybody down, I was not clever enough to stay at school and it was just like a. It was just a blame game instead of uh, like you'd have someone that was an alcoholic, they'd gone a binge or any type of binge, like a drug binge or a drink binge.

Speaker 2: 12:30

Mine to start with was exercise, and then I did it for a few months and I obviously got that runner's high, whatever you want to call it, and then that started to wane and it was like what, what else can I do to give myself that rush? And it was like, how far can I run? How little can I eat? That was that competition I had in my head and obviously I just took that to the absolute extreme. For when, about a year after of doing that. That's when, obviously, I'd lost a hell of a lot of weight and my parents took me to the doctors and my parents had explained what was going on in my life, and that's when I was diagnosed with anorexia.

Speaker 1: 13:09

And so forgive me, which is the one where you don't eat and which is the one where you make yourself sick?

Speaker 2: 13:14

Anorexia is where you restrict and don't eat. Bulimia is obviously where you would binge and then bring the food back up. So it got diagnosed and it was just like what the hell is that? Like I had no idea, I think, obviously, whereas obviously now like mainstream, like media, like talk about it a lot more obviously back we're talking like nearly 20 years ago now, 19 years ago, um, like there was no, there was no programs about it, none of the soaps were talking about it, it wasn't in, like celebrities weren't talking about it, and I I do not know, it's not like I read it and gone. Oh, that sounds interesting. It was just, I think, how I was wired and what I wanted to do to punish myself. That's why that was what I, that was my vice.

Speaker 2: 13:56

Um, obviously, if I'd have been wired any differently, it could have been drink, it could have been drugs, it could have been anything, but the, the method was different. I think the, the results were the exact same. I was doing something to block out how I was feeling. That was my coping mechanism, um, and it wasn't long after it was diagnosed as anorexia that I changed, like manifested itself into, into bulimia.

Speaker 2: 14:21

So it was like the reason for that is I was so hungry I would just I'd go to bed hungry, wake up hungry, and it was just I just rebelled against that feeling of hunger by eating anything and everything that I wanted. But the moment I ate it it was like shame, guilt, like you've lost you, you haven't been able to curb your hunger, pain, so you a failure again and you've got to bring it back up. And obviously, that's where, like, I'd lost a lot of weight with anorexia, but it's the bulimia that really, like caused a lot of health issues. So, obviously, like we're talking probably now like 18, coming on 19. And then that's where, so I had my eating disorder for 10 years.

Speaker 2: 15:05

I was going to say yes, you had 8 and a half years of believing, and when we say 8 and a half years, is this an everyday thing, so you don't have a bad day, you had a good day, but 7 days a week for 8 and a half years, apart from maybe the last couple of years when I would like win the day for a good seven, probably seven years of it was all wet every day, um, and we, we were trying to work it out like we, it would have been at least like 50 times a day.

Speaker 1: 15:37

I was making myself sick 50 times a day because I had this and are you eating as well? No, so you don't eat and you puke up.

Speaker 2: 15:44

Essentially what I was doing was I became nocturnal, I would eating disorders. It doesn't matter if you're a man or a woman, they are incredibly secretive. You do things behind closed doors. You don't like anybody to see you because, again, you're fixated by food. Every single thought in your head is food, because you're just. It's. Either you're hungry, you think about food, you have cravings for food when you say the secretive, though, do you think the secretive?

Speaker 1: 16:13

because, like my impression is normally when, when you look at someone who's anorexic or bulimic, you know that you know they are, and and they might think that they're being secretive about it, but you know whether or not they go and hide in the toilets or deny it, I mean, you know what?

Speaker 2: 16:27

yeah, I think, obviously the outcome the outcome, the result of what you do, is inevitable. You can't hide that. But I think it also comes with the secretiveness of hiding food, like storing food in your bedroom like, yeah, whether you, whether you hide it because you don't want to eat it or you hide it for later, when you having a that crave to binge, you know you've got food like somewhere and it is literally. The habit is the same as an alcoholic you hide drink around the house or you would disguise it in different things. Um, and obviously the way that I ended up the.

Speaker 2: 17:01

The routine that I become accustomed to was I basically had anorexia during the day, so I wouldn up the. The routine that I become accustomed to was I basically had anorexia during the day, so I wouldn't eat, and then I would wait for my parents to go to bed 10, half 10 at night and I would stay up from half 10 till six o'clock in the morning just binging on food. So I'd go out in the day, buy whatever food I was craving, leave it in the boot of my car, and I used to park my car below our living room window. Open the door up or open the window up, climb out the window, open this get open my car, get all the food out and then just sit in the lounge and just binge on food. For what 10 hours?

Speaker 1: 17:42

and and what is the process? That you spend 10 hours eating, enjoying that food, liking that taste?

Speaker 2: 17:47

I think it's the initial, it's the initial taste and then that feeling of, like your, your belly being full because obviously which you like. You like that, you liked it but then, as soon as you sit with it, guilt has to come out and then at that point, then literally like a few minutes after, you finished your last bite and you've got a full belly.

Speaker 1: 18:06

That's when you start puking.

Speaker 2: 18:07

Yeah, yeah. And obviously it'd be like you'd constantly make yourself sick until there was nothing else coming out of you, and obviously how my health deteriorated was I wouldn't know when to stop making myself sick, so I'd end up.

Speaker 1: 18:23

Puking out, yeah, all my. To stop making myself sick. So I'd end up puking out, yeah, all my yeah.

Speaker 2: 18:25

And obviously that's where, at 21 I was, I'd started passing out. If I got up out of the chair too quick or I got up in the middle of the night to go to toilet, if I got up too quick, bam, I'd wake up on the floor.

Speaker 1: 18:38

I wouldn't know how long has passed what were you doing for work, or did you have friends and stuff at this time?

Speaker 2: 18:44

No, obviously like that, that, that I was signed off. I was signed off work, is it employment support, esa, whatever it was. You know it's changed a lot now. Um, but yeah, I got signed off when I had, when it was diagnosed with anorex, obviously friends, just friends had already gone by then. Um, obviously at 18, obviously a lot of them went off to uni. So even prior to that, when it, when it, when it first started, obviously a lot of them were like oh, you're out, you're coming out tonight, you're coming out this week. No, mate, no, I'm busy, I've got plans. And then you just eventually ignore them and then they eventually just stop asking you. So all my friends that I had at school, I I lost just because they went off living their lives and why were you ignoring them?

Speaker 1: 19:30

Why didn't you want to go at them? Because you didn't want to be put around food and such, or you were depressed. You didn't want to see people.

Speaker 2: 19:37

I think it was probably a combination of both. I think I knew I think there was shame in regards to where I was, to what I was doing now Completely like just a completely shit life. So there was like there was shame attached to that, but there was also like the comfort in what I was doing. What I was doing was all consuming and there was like a comfort to that. The way I've described it is something understanding it, since, especially with the bulimia, it's like Stockholm syndrome, um, like it strips away you're too ill to work, you're too ill to have any meaningful relationships. Like my parents are my rocks but they fucking hated me like I was. I was causing, I causing, I've been the biggest strain on their marriage. They took like good cop, bad cop approach.

Speaker 1: 20:30

Only child.

Speaker 2: 20:32

No, no, I've got an older brother but luckily, luckily throughout all this, he's like five years older. So when this all happened he was in Sheffield at uni and obviously then he stayed up at uni, stayed up in Sheffield and worked there and met his now wife and stuff. So luckily he didn't. He saw, like you said, the aftermath, saw how skinny I was and how ill I looked, but he wasn't involved in that routine. So that's a blessing.

Speaker 2: 20:58

But, yeah, like my mum was the bad cop, like only you can change. Like I love you because you're my son, but I hate who you've become. Um. And then my dad was like whatever help you need, let me know. Like he was looking at remortgaging the house to send me to the priory. Um which again, that's how desperate he was because obviously back like 15 to 20 years ago there was no mental health support. The waiting list to go into an eating disorder unit was like six years um, which obviously, had I not have been as ill as I was when, obviously when I was admitted to hospital, I would 100, I would have died. There's no way I would have survived. Um, it's almost like I think you see it all now. It's like you have to be literally at death's door before anybody offers help.

Speaker 1: 21:47

So, at what point were you admitted to hospital? How far in?

Speaker 2: 21:50

21. Obviously, I passed out at home in the kitchen and they had like a marble floor so it smacked my head. I just remember getting up, I remember falling and then I remember waking up in hospital and I had uh like potassium in one arm, phosphate in the other.

Speaker 1: 22:11

So phosphate's like your electrolyte to kick start they're giving you intravenous food.

Speaker 2: 22:13

Yeah, and obviously yeah. So I was um, I, I, when I came to, obviously I had the doctors around me and then there was this um form that my parents had to sign, which was a do not resuscitate form. So I was um, I was five and a half stone at 21, so I think we worked. It's about 40, 40 kg at six foot four um, so in terms of circling the drain, probably the. Yeah, I was, obviously it didn't bother me like I had the doctor saying to me like if you don't change, you are literally going to die, you're going to go into cardiac arrest, your heart's going to stop and we're not even going to try and revive you. I got my parents like almost like shaking me with, like what more do you want to be told? And it was just like I never wanted to. I've never, ever had a feeling of wanting to die, never like I never wanted. I've never, ever had a feeling of wanting to die, never wanted to end it.

Speaker 2: 23:09

Um, but obviously, ultimately, what I was doing was like a really slow suicide, um, but I think it was more the fact that I've become so used to this destructive cycle that it was my identity now, um, like I said, going back to that Stockholm syndrome, if I get rid of the eating disorder, what have I got? Because I've got this shit life. So at least with an eating disorder, I'm James. With the eating disorder, I get rid of it. I've got nothing. So, obviously, after I spent like a week in hospital on these drips and then I was never sectioned under the Mental Health Act it was you either go to the eating disorder unit on a voluntary basis or we'll section you. So it was like don't really have a choice, so I went.

Speaker 1: 23:57

Did you put some weight on during this week in hospital? It doesn't tighten you up, no, no, it was more the phosphate and potassium, it was more.

Speaker 2: 24:03

It was more the um, uh, like phosphate and potassium, it was more just the nutrients and stuff that I needed in terms of like, there was no real. Obviously I was, I was fed, but I don't really think that wasn't really making a a bit of difference. Um, but yeah, so I went into an eating disorder unit for six months, um, but because, again, I was the only throughout the whole 10 years, I was the only guy I ever interacted with, barring therapists. There was no other guys that had an eating disorder. Um, so I couldn't be an inpatient, I had to be a day patient. So I had to be there at seven, leave at seven. So that was like my, that was my routine for for six months and it was.

Speaker 2: 24:43

It was then that they kind of reintroduced me to. I learned how to eat again at like 22, which it sounds so bizarre, but I think it's just obviously the the nature of what I was doing. For nearly five years I wasn't eating anything, um, so I kind of I needed that control taken away, controls, massive with an eating disorder, um, so I was basically fed on a table like this, fed and then monitored, so I couldn't leave the table until I've eaten it. I couldn't leave the table for like an hour after eating it because of going to toilet or whatever and you literally just had.

Speaker 2: 25:20

It was almost like a scene out of the like. One flew over the cuckoo's nest, so all these nurses watching you with like clipboards writing things down, and you think, like now, with that, I don't know if the practices still work, but obviously again, it worked for me because that control was completely taken away Eat, that you stay in there, you're not doing anything until we feel that it's, there's not, you can't do anything off your own back. And then it was obviously doing therapy as well, with, like psychotherapists trying to understand the root causes of everything. And that didn't go well for me. The therapists I had weren't the best.

Speaker 2: 26:01

The first therapy session I ever had, I had a guy telling me oh, this is a new one for me. I've never worked with a guy telling me oh, this is a, this is, this is a new one for me. I've never, never worked with a guy before. This is normally a woman's problem. Imagine that you've got a guy saying that to you and it was obviously at the time. It was like I'd never, even, never even in my head, about other guys. I just thought this is, you don't really have that perspective on things like who else has got it? Is it a man, is it a woman? Like you don't. So when they told me that it was like well, why me like? Why am I? Why am I the only guy this guy's known thinking about it? Why am I the only guy here like?

Speaker 1: 26:32

what? What are the stats on on bulimia and anorexia nowadays in terms of, you know, percentage of people have it or number of people?

Speaker 2: 26:40

it's still. It's still predominantly women, but the increase, increase in men, especially post-lockdown, has been massive, especially with bulimia. It's kind of classed now as a stress. It's almost induced by stress. It's another way of it's a negative coping mechanism. Obviously, some people do that as a. Again, it all depends on how you're wired and what your background is and what your personality is. Some people will, will binge drink. Some people will take drugs. Some people will excessively exercise. Obviously some people just it's there. They get so worked up with stress. It's almost like they've got to get something out and obviously, if they've just eaten, and obviously that and that's, and they feel that release, that's when that negative cycle can then start, because there's almost like there's a comfort to that. That's relieved my stress. It's like it hasn't. It's like a fake release of stress. You haven't relieved it, you just feel it because something's coming up. Therefore, that has to be the stress you're dealing with and then you get into that cycle of self-sabotage and that's how easy you can get into these and can.

Speaker 1: 27:43

Can people have like part-time bulimia, or is it either on or off? You know? I mean like you, you puke up two or three days a week and you're not on the other days. I think again I think.

Speaker 2: 27:52

I think it's like I'm trying to make it easy for other people to understand. It's like you can be a full-on alcoholic and you can be a functioning alcoholic. You can be a functioning bulimic. You can do or see the, if you remember, like john prescott yeah the mp.

Speaker 2: 28:08

Obviously he he suffered with it and obviously people took the piss out of him because he's quite quite a big man and obviously he did it and obviously his, his, his reaction or his trigger was stress, um. So you, you can um, and obviously it just depends on I guess it depends on what areas you have in your life that can keep you focused in other ways, like if you've got nothing, if you don't have a family, you don't have a partner, you don't have a job, you don't have any other things, in reality you're fucked because it's just going to keep you in that cycle, because it's the only thing you've got. And obviously that's from my own experience if that's the only thing you've got, the last thing you're going to want to do is get rid of it, because it's the only thing that gives you any form of identity.

Speaker 1: 28:48

Hey, matt Haycox here with a quick interruption, just to say I hope you're liking the show, but please, please, like, subscribe or comment. That's how we can bring you better guests, that's how we can make the show better each week. So please, please. That's all I ever ask of you. We never charge, we never ask anything else. Just please give us a few moments of your time. So at this point in the story you're 21, 22,. You're kind of four years into what was a 10-year problem. So presumably you relapsed again, did you?

Speaker 2: 29:17

Yeah, obviously, I relapsed numerous times. Obviously, there was never any period of time when it was like I'd won the week. It would always be my, it was just my comfort, it was the one thing that I just I grew up with it. When most lads are out getting drunk uni holidays, I would say one night stands, but relationships like I didn't have. I didn't have any of that and I still that. That life passed me by and it was just.

Speaker 2: 29:51

I used to see people on on Facebook, see Facebook at the time. It wasn't anything else and it was just like to see them living their lives and going on holiday and like the lads that I was obviously at school with that have all met up and done a little reunion and it's like I should have been there. That should. I should have been part of that. I should have gone there, I should, I should be at uni now. I should be with one or two of them. Um, and again, it was just. That was my, that was my constant crutch. The, the bulimia, was my, my crutch to deal with all these feelings of being not, not living a life, not having any, any type of purpose. Obviously, a big, big thing like that with me now is it's understanding what your why is, what your purpose is. And I didn't have it. And if you don't have it, you'll continue doing the same shit you're doing every day, because you're just going through life with blinkers on. There's no short, medium, long-term plan, it's just this is my routine. Is it serving me? No, is it the only thing I've got? Yeah, so I'll keep doing it.

Speaker 2: 30:52

And obviously that continued until I was probably about 25. Until I was probably about 25. 25 was when I'd been through various forms of therapy. I'd seen a hypnotist, I'd worked with other like psychotherapists, and then the biggest attribute to my recovery was working with a sports psychologist who used to work with a football football club and the england cricket team, um, and he was so different to anybody else I'd ever I'd ever had a therapy session with because of the sporting background. It was kind of like, oh, I've got that. I don't know you, but we've got a connection. If you like sport, I like sport.

Speaker 2: 31:36

So I was far more inclined to listen to what he had to say. There wasn't really this pre-judgment of I'm not going to give myself to you because I don't like what you're about, I don't want you to change me. There was like a bit of respect that I had for what he did, and he was very much like I don't give a shit that you've got an eating disorder. Like, do you want it? No, do you know why it started? Pretty much I can put my finger on it.

Speaker 2: 32:02

Do you want to go back to when you were born? Was there like some childhood trauma that is undiagnosed? It's like, do you want to go back literally down the rabbit hole to find the exact pinpoint moment that your life went to shit? Not really. Do you want to get rid of it? Yeah, let's work on getting rid of it then. And it was. It was like such a different way of the him looking at things. Um, and obviously I worked with him for probably about six months and it was just there was nothing like miraculous with his teachings so I was going to say tell me about the therapy, tell you, what kind of stuff did you do?

Speaker 2: 32:34

it was. It was more. It literally was like reverse psychology. It was all about like, if you want, if you look at your, your mates that are all living their lives, like, if you want the life that they want, do something about it. Like you're probably too late to go to uni now, so what can you do? What would give you that, that that thing of what would give you that purpose that's going to feel occupy your time in a more productive way than what your eating disorder is. It's like work, going back to work, having that purpose, even if it's just an office nine to five job. That's a long period of time that I'm not sitting at home thinking about. Oh, what can I binge on tonight? What's my cravings tonight? And so, through him and my dad, they got me a job Again. Without my dad I wouldn't have got the job that I got. It was through someone in his network that was looking for a business development manager.

Speaker 1: 33:27

You were still living at home at this point as well, were you? Yes?

Speaker 2: 33:29

Yeah, yeah. So I got a job as a business development manager for a double glazing company. So the rigmarole that you get with that you work for a double glazing company, you just get with that. You work for a double glazing company. You get told to, yeah, every phone call go away in polite terms. But obviously the business development side of it was trying to come up with more commercial partnerships, so working with more B2B rather than the residential side of things.

Speaker 2: 33:59

And so I started going to networking events and seeing all these people and like at the time, absolutely shit myself. Like trying to stand up in front of a room talking to people about something I don't really know, but I've got to blag it to sound like I know what I'm doing and I think that like chucking yourself in at deep end, coming out of your comfort zone. It was like a sink or swim thing for me and don't get me wrong, I still I'd come home at night and still have a little binge every now and then. But that was the turning point for me. That was when I felt like I was almost like a valued member of society. I came home like I would then like, do like lead sourcing for the following day to try and who can I contact? And it was like the longer I do work, the less time I have to think about food. And obviously it wasn't healthy, but it was far more healthier than the eating disorder. And obviously that's where, over like a 18 month period, I started to win the weeks, win, win the month and obviously then in turn win the year.

Speaker 2: 34:58

And then I moved out, got my own place, I think I worked. I worked there for probably about another year and then that's when I got the opportunity to move up to Sheffield for a job funny enough, with my brother's company at the time, as a construction buyer, which is kind of like a bit like a business development manager but a lot more like organisation involved, where you're speaking to people and making sure that certain materials arrive at certain points. It was like double my salary and obviously moving up from down south to up north it's like half the living cost. It was like fucking hell, like it's a no-brainer, it's a no-brainer decision. But it's like am I ready? Am I ready to do this on my own? Like my brother's going to be there but he hasn't. He hasn't got a clue what I was like, so I can't burden him with my shit.

Speaker 2: 35:47

So, and it was like it was that, that, that big like, that moment of like putting my big boy pants on, like that seminal moment of like, am I ready to do? This was only one way to find out so obviously took the job, and then I got made redundant after six months. So I'd moved like 300 miles out the country thinking it's going to be my new life, and then six months later it's like yeah, there's not a job for you anymore, james. It's like, fuck, what do we do now? So I think I was 27 then. So I so I went on holiday, went on holiday to Sharm el Sheikh for a couple of weeks to try and reevaluate my life, and while I was there, my dad's like just come home.

Speaker 2: 36:24

But come home Like we'll pay your rent for the, for what you need to pay up in Sheffield, just come home. I said no, there's no point wasting money, I see what I can do in six months. So I got another job and then I met a woman like the first person that had ever shown me any attention in 10 years and I latched on to that. It's like why, why, what's, what's the, what's your game like, what's the? I didn't really understand why someone's wanting to like, want to see me and seemingly like me and whatever, um, and obviously I think she was the first girl that I ever, I ever, I ever loved um and we were together for about 18 months and then just thought that it was that was going to be my little, that was my little piece of the piece of the pie. And uh, yeah, she.

Speaker 2: 37:11

She ended things via whatsapp, um, one day going to work telling me that she didn't love me anymore and that she wanted me to move out and I didn't get closure. So I got my own closure, decided what the own closure was, and that was that I don't look like a man, so I'd have been 27. I was nine and a half stone when I first walked into the gym. That's when I weighed myself and I told the guy my story and he was like if you want to change and you want to bet yourself, if you give yourself to me and train and eat what I tell you to eat, you'll change your life, you'll change yourself. And I was like all right.

Speaker 2: 37:45

So I literally gave myself to him.

Speaker 1: 37:47

But I was going to say you're light at nine and a half stone, yeah, but you didn't still have to do eating disorder at this point.

Speaker 2: 37:56

No, that was the one thing Like I have. No, obviously the way it ended was a bit brutal, um, in terms of like, not not really understanding the closure, but I think I doing like a little, it's probably my first ever bit of like self-development or self-reflection on a situation, and it was like understanding that. Christ, the time I spent with her, it's changed my outlook on having an eating disorder. There was no, there's no need, there's no need for it, because I had a job. I thought I had a family and I had a purpose. My purpose was to provide for my family, so there was no need for any of this unnecessary routine. Um, and obviously, when I was, I was with her. So I was with her for like 18 months and I didn't I hadn't made myself, didn't make myself sick in the whole 18 months that we were together. Um, and I think so, mentally, I'd recovered. I think, yeah, mentally I could say I recovered physically, obviously, clearly I hadn't, and that was the, that was my, the deep dive that I did, that was my take home thing. For that I need to become a man. And so I started going to the gym and then, within 18 months, I'd put on like five and a half stone. So I went from nine and a half to just over 15. And obviously that's when I tracked my journey on Instagram and that's where I gained, obviously, the followers and that was a real ego boost for the whole 10 years of not having anybody say anything to you, having it as a kid that you're going to be this footballer, and then it's taken away, and then you spend this time of not interacting with anyone and then suddenly getting like, wow, mate, you look amazing, you trained me and all this and it was just like you probably go through. Most pts have probably got really people have really crappy views of them, that they're egotistical, arrogant, love themselves, and I definitely went through that stage.

Speaker 2: 39:49

I think getting that validation of strangers, like I feel that I needed it. I think it helped with my, with my recovery, I think, to get that that validation of. In hindsight, these people offered like no real value to my life, but they were supporting me, they were sharing what I was doing and, um, they were a big. That was a big, that was a big help to me to get that, that self-confidence in myself and that that value, and obviously that's whereby the my new purpose was I. I could do this, I could do this as a job, like I love what it's done to me and what I've learned about myself.

Speaker 2: 40:26

And I don't think I actually knew what self-development was. I just I lived, breathed and ate the gym and it was like so when I wasn't a gym, I was listening to, to podcasts about the gym and obviously a lot of that entwines with, like, the development stuff and obviously, your mindset and it was like I like this, this is like this is. This is a bit of me. I could, I could get into this. So like from from like 18 months into the into the gym, I'd physically like change myself, where I actually looked healthy, I gained, I looked like I had a bit of presence about me. And obviously that's when it coincided with the, with the mindset, mindset stuff.

Speaker 2: 41:07

Again, like listening to the early on, it was like see, david Goggins was like listening to him and it was like at the start of it I was listening to it and he's got this guy like running or seemingly chatting shit, but it's like when you actually listen to what he's saying, it's actually proper, profound. It's like there's a lot of stuff I go I can relate to, that I can relate to that um, and it was obviously, yeah, listening to what he was saying and trying to apply that to my life, and it was obviously the the never going back. Like I've changed now I can never go back and that's what probably still drives me like today, like I never, ever, ever, want to be seen as a failure, like failure and rejection are like things that I just don't, I don't even want to have in my in my mind. I mean, I don't even want to have them in my vocabulary. I think it's just and I think that's that kind of attitude has kept me constantly progressing away from the eating disorder side of things and trying to initially just become a PT to help people physically better themselves. And obviously I became a PT in February 2019.

Speaker 2: 42:14

And it wasn't until after lockdown that I changed and kind of focused on the mental health side of things. Initially, I didn't really speak a lot about my eating disorder. I think it was kind of whether it was. I felt like a bit of a like imposter. I think it was probably the imposter syndrome in regards to who am I to tell people to better their mindset when I fucked around for 10 years? But it wasn't until it was just like you know, you did change. You have bettered yourself, like what the story that you've got has will have value to. Not everybody, but some people. Some people will be going through the same things as you, or parents or friends or colleagues in work will notice someone that's probably struggling with their food and how they see themselves. It's like they will resonate with what you're about and what you do.

Speaker 1: 43:12

And what would you say is the single biggest thing that has kept you on the straight and narrow?

Speaker 2: 43:16

then that feeling of purpose, biggest thing that has kept you on the straight and narrow than that feeling of purpose. To me, the gym is again. Everybody's wired differently but for me the gym is like my safety net. If I'm having a crap day, if I'm dealing with crap, go to the gym and by the time you come out of the gym you've done your session. Chucking weight around that big problem isn't a big problem anymore.

Speaker 1: 43:43

But how do you find the difference in that? Because when you were younger your escape was running, but then that running that started as an escape became a problem from half an hour to an hour to running into bulimia. How do you strike that balance, or that difference, if you like, that going to the gym is just getting rid of your stress and making yourself feel better and that the gym doesn't become a problem?

Speaker 2: 44:10

I think it's because obviously the other areas of my life are in balance. I think obviously the running coincided with me finishing school obviously finishing school, obviously finishing college, and not really having anything else as my purpose.

Speaker 1: 44:30

And I was going to say I'm not trying to force you back to saying yes to having the why, but I guess just trying to follow it through for other people's purposes. You're saying that your life's imbalanced now but imbalanced because you've got that. Why?

Speaker 2: 44:41

because because you've got that that yeah, obviously, like obviously what, what I'm doing with what I'm doing with my work, there's so many like, there's so many elements to it in regards to obviously there's there's like the training people like online. There's obviously the, the new side of what I'm trying to do with the, with the corporate side of things, getting into businesses. So there's never I could never just I could sit around and do nothing, but there's always something to do, whereas obviously before there was literally nothing to do. So there's always.

Speaker 2: 45:10

I've always got a reason to be busy and I think that boredom was the biggest factor for me with the eating disorder. If I had nothing to do, that's when I couldn't, I couldn't sit on my own in a room without like five minutes later I'd be like legs would be going like be tapping myself, cause it would just be the, the angel and the devil on my shoulder, just like the devil going got loads of time like easily have a binge now, and there wouldn't be anything stopping me, whereas obviously, like I don't have that because I've got other things to occupy, occupy my mind and I guess everybody.

Speaker 1: 45:49

Man, if everybody's problems manifest in their own different ways, and obviously yours, yours ended up with the, with the eating disorders. Do you think, as someone coaching people through mental health issues now, do you think that this solution if you like this, why this purpose, this busyness ultimately applies to anyone's version of those problem manifestations, whether it's alcohol, whether it's drugs, whether it's any kind of self sabotage? This is what's missing in people's lives, which ends up causing that self-sabotage. I think that's it.

Speaker 2: 46:23

And I think obviously the people that follow me on my socials or whatever, obviously they're going to have an inherent interest in sport, exercise, fitness, and I don't claim to tell. There's a lot of people that I train that don't go to the gym. It could just be that they are. It could be rugby, it could be swimming, it could be whatever. There's some people that haven't, haven't done any form of exercise for 15, 20 years and just getting them out the house is that's their gym, that's their. So it's not about people like look at me or the things that I put up. Mine is is is lifting, is weightlifting bodybuilding? Well, not bodybuilding, but weightlifting like it doesn't have to be exactly what I do, you don't, because otherwise you're not me, you won't. You don't you. If you, if you train like me, you won't look like me and obviously that's a that's a key thing. But it's making sure that you have something in your life that will keep you active and I think you will know.

Speaker 2: 47:16

Obviously, being like successful entrepreneur, it takes a lot of time and it's very hard to teach someone that, because there are a lot of factors involved with starting your own business. You have to. You can come into something at just the right time and it could fucking fly. It could also be that you've got to spend 10, 20 years grinding every day and eventually you'll get your opportunity when you're in the gym or when you're exercising. It's all you Like.

Speaker 2: 47:43

The person that started your before pictures and the person after the improvement that they make, it's solely them. It's not anybody else. There's no other factors involved. It's solely based on the amount of work that you put in and I think that that's the building block for them to go. If I can apply that to myself physically and I can see within six months I've improved tenfold. What if I applied that to work? What if I applied that to that business idea that I've always had? And I think that it's the quickest thing that you can do to reap the rewards and I think that that, to me, the exercise is that foundation, it's that initial thing that they can go.

Speaker 2: 48:25

If I spend three to six months making this my, my sole mission to improve myself, that's the foundation they go shit if I did that with with work, or I did that with this business idea, or I did that with my family, or I did that with my friends, what could, how much could my life improve in a year if I've got gym or exercise, but like building my business and building that side hustle, improving relationships with my partner. And I think that the exercise is the start of that and I think that's whereby it's one of the key. Well, I've got four key pillars Obviously, mindset, mental health is the first one, and then training, nutrition and then the work-life balance. Those are my four pillars.

Speaker 1: 49:14

How do you describe work-life balance? What does that mean to you?

Speaker 2: 49:18

Again, to me it's very individual, because no two-person schedules are the same, but it's about making sure that you almost have a designated time across your schedule, like booked out to do things with your family, and whether that be again. It may be that it's just on a weekend.

Speaker 1: 49:37

What if you don't want to see the family and I say that, not facetiously, but, I think, because normally when I hear people talk about work-life balance, it's their view of work-life balance and you know it's somebody else telling you to live the life the way that they want. You know, you know, are you working too much, or you know you're not, you know you're not going on enough holidays, or you know you're doing this, you're doing the other, um, and, and yes, I think, ultimately for you know, for some people you get under pressure, they get stuck in that rut. It is whatever it is, but I think for other people their balance just looks completely different. A lot of people say to me my mum, she says you work too hard, you do too much, it's Saturday, why are you not doing this?

Speaker 1: 50:22

I don't want to, obviously, I've got a new baby. I like spending the family time, I like to spend, but I've got my limits to it. Sure, other than that, I always kind of say, in chess, but not in chess, my only real interests are working and shagging. And you know, I'll, I'll. I want to go to work and then I want to have a shag and that's and that's about it, yeah but, um, I think you know.

Speaker 1: 50:43

So so many people kind of get forced into a balance that actually is not what they should be doing.

Speaker 2: 50:49

I get that and obviously the one thing with me is very much like it's individualised. Obviously, every consultation call that we'll have and obviously when they do sign up with me, I will try and get as much information about them as possible. Because it's not, yeah, my idea of balance will be completely different to yours. It'll be different to anybody else that you ask. It's obviously about what are you happy?

Speaker 2: 51:12

yes, exactly that, exactly that like is. Do you think that there is room for improvement in your current schedule that would, if you did x, would make you happier? Yes, okay, how can we do that? What is your current schedule? What are we doing? What could, what could you implement or what could you currently remove that will give you, like you said, they may not want to spend it with their family. They may want to do it with their, like their hobby, golf, whatever it could be. It is so individualized, but it's just about having, like the the best, the as much detail about that person as possible and then trying to implement things into their life that are going to help them. Like, just feel better. That it's not.

Speaker 2: 51:53

Obviously they say, like all work and no play makes jack a dull boy. But I completely get what you say, because it's a lot easier to find balance if you have a nine to five. If you are someone that is building your own little empire, you can't really have days off. Those days off can come. When you are someone that is building your own little empire, you can't really have days off. Those days off can come when you are five years down the line and it's self-sufficient and it's self-serving. Like you, again, again, that's everyone's interpretation of balance, isn't it?

Speaker 2: 52:19

My life will be balanced when I've hit x. That may take me 10 years. So for 10 years I'm going to be like balls deep in work, and obviously it depends on the people. 10 years I'm going to be like balls deep in work and obviously it depends on the people around you. Are they going to be supporting that? And if they're with you, they'll just be on that journey with you, because when it does reach that point, you're going to have this level of well. You could be comfortable for the rest of your life then. So it's like 10 years of hard graft to give you the remaining 30 40 years of your life to spend it however you want. That's in reality.

Speaker 1: 52:51

You're not balanced, but you are in the following the plan that suits you exactly. So do you find? Do you tend to only work, or not necessarily only work, but do you find that most of the clients that come to you they're not just coming for for pt, they're coming for that whole mental health exercise package?

Speaker 2: 53:09

it's definitely changed over the last, probably close to a year. There's a lot more, a lot more of, obviously, the the, the check-ins that I do. They're kind of like bi-weekly, so week one, three will be like training, nutrition, and they're obviously week three and four will be solely your mental health, or like a check-in about your lifestyle, how you're feeling within yourself, how work's going. It's like it's not a therapy session, but it kind of is. I'm not a qualified therapist, obviously me. It's just about applying my skillset to their lives and it's almost like I. They set to their to their lives and it's almost like I. They don't know me, I'm not.

Speaker 2: 53:49

I'm not someone that's going to sit there judging them whether, if anyone that works for me knows my story and they know that I would be the least judgmental person, otherwise I'd probably be the biggest hypocrite in the world if I'm sitting there going. Well, you shouldn't do that. It'd be like I've literally done that I. I've got the t-shirt in pretty much everything. One of the things the reason why I started what I do and the things that I mentioned in the corporate world doing my resilience talks is it's essentially, this was my life. Don't do what I did. That's kind of everything that I built is literally just yeah, don't fuck up your life like I did. So I'll try and stop you as best as I can and I'll try and implement things that I know that you are interested in into your life to make you feel more fulfilled. Otherwise you're opening your world up to a whole load of crap. That's kind of my little mission.

Speaker 1: 54:44

As someone who's suffered for many years and then come out the other side and, having not been a sufferer myself, maybe the analogies don't work as well together. But I don't know how suffering from bulimia, for example, compares to an alcoholic or a drug addict. But I've got quite a few mates and we all know a lot of people who've had drink problems, had drug problems and then kind of gone sober. But I have a look at some of these people and think you were almost better off before you went sober and, yes, you needed to stop all the quantity of the booze and the gear you were doing, but I kind of think you were better off trying to find a middle ground.

Speaker 1: 55:31

Now I know why the people don't find this middle ground because they're the kind of addictive personalities that can't. But like you know, I mean I had dinner, you know, six or seven months ago now, with a mate of mine who had come out to Dubai, who had come out to Dubai and he was a guy who literally he'd just go disappearing for weekends. And then he was that guy that goes out on a Thursday night, comes back on a Tuesday, misses his you know, kicking him out of the house and you know he's into booze and gear and brass, and that's all he wants to do and he came out here.

Speaker 1: 55:59

He said, oh, let's go for some dinner. I said, where? Well, you know I don't drink anymore, so you know, let's go wherever. And we, you know, just went for a shisha and a fruit juice and a bit of chat and a ketchup. The whole time I'm looking at him and his feet are going, his hands are going, he's looking around and you know, talking about things and it's like you're not doing it. But you also look so lost on edge in such a mess that it's almost like you need a bit of bad. You need a bit of bad in your life to try and level you out. And I'm not explaining stuff. Well, I'm sure you understand what I'm saying.

Speaker 2: 56:46

I 100% get what you mean, I think. I think in regards to, like your friend obviously I don't know the personal life, but it seems like they haven't been able to make that transition from again with me. It was kind of, and what I try and do with my clients. It's like you take you, you can never. You can never stop a habit. You can replace it. So you try and replace a bad with a good. It takes a long time and there's a quite a long transition period where you have your little relapses and you learn and you try and find out what that trigger was, and and then you implement something else and eventually, like we said, the good days, you win, the win, the day, the week, the month. It may be that they haven't got that.

Speaker 2: 57:20

That new that new positive habit dialed in um, and obviously it's and is that why I forget the introduction?

Speaker 1: 57:28

is that why so many people, let's say, go from almost like one extreme to the other? That because, because, personality wise, you know, they have to have something to go all in on. So they were all in on the booze and the gear and they have quit it, genuinely quit it. And now they've taken up running, for example, and they're running fucking marathons every day because, because there's just no middle ground, they've just got to be.

Speaker 2: 57:48

Yes, it's transference. That's what. Obviously that's what you're transferring from, from basically one addiction to another, but you're trying to make that addiction more healthier to your life than the current one you've got and and?

Speaker 1: 57:59

is there a way to effectively try and overcome addiction as opposed to trying? Because obviously, yes, it's better to be a runner than to be a sniffer yeah, but still yeah but doing anything, anything to an extreme you know has it has its downfalls.

Speaker 2: 58:13

I think again, I think I think with that, it's all it depends on.

Speaker 2: 58:16

It depends on how you're wired and I think I think with, with that respect, I think, actually looking at the psychology behind how you're, how you're wired, that would obviously be like like a therapist, that would be something that would be like psychological because, again, it could be that they have got untapped trauma from from a, from a child, or something that's happened in their life that has made them how they are, that shaped them to the person that they've become, and they may not, may not even know it.

Speaker 2: 58:42

They may have just gone through life, kind of like with the blinkers on and they're just going from one thing to another and obviously they've picked up this, this addiction, and obviously that addictive personality. Like I have it, I 100% have an addictive personality and I think that's whereby I don't I've I've never, I've never smoked, I've never taken drugs, because I probably am far more aware of myself, probably in the last like five or six years. But still my, my, my motto and I know people, loads of people, say that I'm boring like, but you can't miss what you don't know.

Speaker 2: 59:16

If you've never done anything, people can tell you oh, it's fucking amazing it's like, yeah, you tell me it's amazing, but then I see you the following day and I see you three days later. You're still hanging out your ass. I mean, boring's a matter of perception, isn't it? Yeah, exactly that.

Speaker 1: 59:31

And someone who's getting on it all the time will tell the person who's not getting on it that they're boring yeah.

Speaker 1: 59:37

I like a bit of wine. I'm certainly not into the drugs and whatever. Again, I don't judge, don't really care, but I look at that life. I think to me you're boring because you've got nothing else to do or the only way you can really enjoy yourself is by smashing the booze, smashing the gear and that's you know, and talking shit that you can't even remember what you've been talking about the next day. But yeah, I think it's boredom is very much a matter of perception, isn't it?

Speaker 2: 1:00:02

yeah, 100. I said that's the thing. It's just like everyone. Everyone I work with, they're just everybody. Everybody is unique. Everyone has a different story. Everybody's wired in a completely different way and it's just about.

Speaker 2: 1:00:14

I guess, depending on it depends on where you're at. Are you still living in self-denial? Are you still do you still think you actually have a problem? Or are you so used to it that everybody else is the problem and you're just sitting there with your head up your ass not actually admitting the things that you're doing are your vices that aren't really serving you in the long run? And obviously there's, there's, there's, there's to me that it sounds. I always bring it up. There's like there's levels to everything.

Speaker 2: 1:00:37

You've got like the five stages of grief, isn't it like the anger, the denial, the acceptance, and it's kind of the same. If you have, if you, it's like what level is that person at? Are they still in full denial? I'm fine, like, yeah, I may drink too much sometimes, but I can rein it back in. It's like we've never seen you rein it back in. You're always, and again they're in the complete and utter denial stage. And it may well be that they have to. And it sounds horrible to say, but some of the people that work with me, it's like your desire to change must be greater than your desire to stay the same, and sometimes that decision is made for them due to a health scare and then it's like shit, I actually need to pull my finger out now and it's just. But then some people don't get that second chance and they'll end up just having a heart attack or whatever, doing something silly while they're drunk and they don't get a chance to change their life because it's been taken away from them. It depends on where they're at on their own self-acceptance journey, and I think it may well be that obviously, the fitness industry is hit and miss depending on who you follow. There's a lot of charlatans. There's a lot of industry is very it's hit and miss depending on on who, on who you follow. There's a lot of charlatans. There's a lot of bullshit that gets gets spread around and obviously for people that are decent trying to spread the message, you kind of get bungled into like that murky water.

Speaker 2: 1:01:57

But I think, like personal development and stuff is is definitely improving. There's far more people talking about it and you just think, hopefully, some point someone's going to be flicking through instagram or tiktok or whatever, and they're going to have this like moment of fuck. That's me, like I need to, I need to do something, and I think something that you put up, uh, was yesterday or this morning about the one percent that's. That is literally one of my mottos. It's like you, just you don't need to make the massive change. You don't need to go from naught to 100 straight away, because you're going to fuck it off in about a week, because it'll be too much, too soon for your brain to comprehend. So, if you can make the small changes but in the fitness industry, that's not sexy, because everyone wants a six-pack in three days it's like no, it's not going to happen. Like you've been in this state in your life. Literally the only reason why people have drink problems is that deep down, they're so fucking unhappy and it's about something. I don't know what that root cause is, unless you sit and talk to someone, but it's understanding what that is and it's like if you are, if you've been unhappy for 20 years, and then you, just you just started on this journey of recovery, improvement, it's going to take years. It is going to take years and it's just like people don't really have that stickability because they see that person got in shape in in 60 days. So if I haven't changed in 60 days, fuck it I. I haven't changed in 60 days, fuck it, I'll try something else. And it's just like. I just wish people could just park that bullshit and understand that results take a long time, like was it 10? My eating disorder was for 10 years and I'm now nine years into my recovery, so I've almost had it. It's literally coming up to the point now where I've had it. I haven't had it for as long as I had it.

Speaker 2: 1:03:50

Um, and that people say to me like when they're just like wow, you're mad, you're, like you're, you can lift so much, you're this, you're that. It's like yes, taking fucking ages, taking nine years. It's taking nine years of like working out four or five times a week. Like you don't build what I've, what I've been able to build, like mentally, physically, emotionally, in in in six months. It takes a long time. It's like you. That's why I try.

Speaker 2: 1:04:15

And when you, when you have these like um, like client check-ins and and these client consultations, like I try and manage the expectation. It's like you do know this is going to take a long period of time, because I don't want you to come in in three months time and go you're shit, you've not, you've not, you've not done, I've not changed anything, it's like you have. You may not have changed like physically yet, because we're working on the mental side of things. We're slowly changing your, your outlook on things. We're trying we're changing that those habits into positive ones and obviously, once we've got that nailed down, then we can step foot into the realm of of exercising.

Speaker 2: 1:04:51

And it's like that you do things in in small chunks that they can slowly incorporate into their life and then when they look back in like a year's time, it's like fucking, how have I got here? But it goes against everything that people have known on Instagram and it's very hard to try and rewire people They've become so indoctrinated into. They want it now. And it's like you're changing your life. Like why are you going to rush it? Like I know you want to get better as soon as, but you have to do it in the right way. Like unless you win the lottery, you're not going to become a millionaire overnight.

Speaker 1: 1:05:23

Do you find that people who reach out to you have a real impatience with things?

Speaker 2: 1:05:28

100%. And then that's the amount of times you would end up speaking with someone. You jump on a call and it's like, well, I've spoken to this guy and he's promised me that he can get me. If I pay him X amount, he can get me in this shape in four months. I'd be like, okay, well, you shape in four months. I'll be like, okay, well, you're not going to come. No, I don't need. I don't need to like, yes, you may well be, you may have a bigger chest or bigger biceps in four months, but you're not going to fucking change anything up there.

Speaker 2: 1:05:56

If you're solely focusing on the physical, you're not going to change the mental and it's like, it's just that the slow, the slow, the slow, incremental changes. That's when it's like the tortoise and the hare analogy, that's what I was trying to think of. So you'd have someone just absolutely running off, not really knowing where they're going, but stupidly fast, whereas the tortoise is slow, methodical, it's not sexy, but they'll be better off in the long run. And obviously that's me. That's kind of what I do and obviously that's whereby, like, I don't shout and I'm not loud and grab your attention and stuff which is probably to my detriment. But then it's not me, I'd be living a lie. I am how I am and I'm confident in what I do. I just know that I need to manage expectations, especially when it comes to people's mental health.

Speaker 1: 1:06:42

You can't be. It's horses for courses as well. Whoever you want to learn, you know. Whoever you kind of want to learn from whoever, whoever you look up to, so much of the information out there is the same. It's just you know. Do you like the delivery? Delivery of the person who you're getting it from? And yeah, you know, some people want someone shouting you in your face. Some people want someone who's calm, someone wants an american or someone in english a man, a woman or whatever.

Speaker 1: 1:07:04

so you know there. So you know there's a place for everybody and you know, I'm sure you're finding yours well.

Speaker 2: 1:07:10

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Speaker 1: 1:07:11

Well, listen, james, it's been an absolute pleasure having you here. I mean, I guess that's a nice, that's an opportune moment to ask you to give yourself a little shout out for people who've been listening to this and you know, I'm sure there's many guys out there who can relate to what you're saying, people who, like you say, haven't had the confidence to speak up yet. So if they want to find you, how do they get you and how can they work with you?

Speaker 2: 1:07:33

The best way would be, obviously, on Instagram. Obviously, the handle is James of Mental Health PT, and I've recently launched my new website, which is mentalresiliencycouk, so obviously that's got everything on there about what I do.

Speaker 1: 1:07:49

So those are the two I was gonna say that that that's almost sounds a marketing disaster of asking people how to spell resiliency oh god, yeah, yeah just uh google it.

Speaker 1: 1:07:58

I'm sure it'll come up, so yeah yeah, you want mentalhealthptcom yeah, yeah, yeah, true, it's too expensive that yeah, yeah yeah, but I say I appreciate, I appreciate the time, I appreciate really, really thanks a lot for being here, but it's great to hear your story and great to hear you're obviously not just how you, how you've overcome it, but everything you're doing for other people too. So, uh, thank you very much. Thank you thanks for listening to stripping off with matt haycox. I hope you've enjoyed listening to this week's episode, but please remember, remember to subscribe or to follow and please, please, leave a review, if you can leave a review. That's how we move up the algorithm, that's how we get to the top of the charts and that's how I can keep bringing you bigger and better guests that you'll love each week. Have you got any suggestions for guests? Have you got any burning questions you want to ask? Well, slide into my DMs on social at strippingoff.