Stripping Off with Matt Haycox
Welcome to 'Stripping Off with Matt Haycox,' where we bare it all on business, money, and life. Get ready to peel back the layers of success with entrepreneur, investor, funding expert, and mentor with over 20 years of experience building and growing businesses, Matt Haycox.
Tune into steamy conversations with industry titans, celebrities, and successful entrepreneurs as they strip down their stories of triumphs, setbacks, and the raw realities of their journey to the top. Matt is going down on business, money, and life, and will take DMCs to new heights!
Stripping Off with Matt Haycox
Danny Crates: "I Looked Down and One Arm Was on My Lap" – When It’s Not About Winning, But Being Your Best.
Tell us what you like or dislike about this episode!! Be honest, we don't bite!
This one’s huge. We’ve got Danny Crates on the pod – Paralympic gold medalist, world champion, and an all-around legend who’s turned his life story into a masterclass on resilience and determination. If you need inspiration, this episode is for you.
Danny breaks down the moment everything changed – a freak accident that cost him his arm. Instead of letting that be the end, it became the start of something bigger. From hospital days full of humor to stepping onto the rugby field with one arm, Danny’s story is all about thriving through adversity. He even takes us through training for the Paralympics, going from bronze in Sydney to gold in Athens. This guy doesn’t just compete – he dominates, and his mindset is something we can all learn from.
But it’s not just about medals. Danny opens up about life after sport – transitioning into broadcasting, becoming a top keynote speaker, and applying his “5 Pillars of Performance” to business and everyday life. He’s got this amazing ability to connect elite athletics to high performance in any field.
We also dive into the mental side – what separates good athletes from great ones and the mental barriers that hold people back. Whether you’re an athlete, business owner, or just looking to level up, Danny’s story will light a fire under you.
Hit play and get ready to feel fired up. You don’t want to miss this one.
Timestamps:
0:00 - Intro
0:11 - The Accident
6:40 - Hospital
11:06 - Friendly Jokes in the Hospital
14:57 - Your Life and Future After the Accident - Would You Change Anything?
21:07 - Scuba Diving Before and After the Accident
25:10 - Specialist Sports Centres and Coaches
28:32 - Playing Rugby with One Arm
32:37 - World Championships 1998-2000
34:42 - Certain Disabilities for Paralympics?
36:43 - Bronze at Sydney
39:34 - Olympics and Paralympics Time Differences
41:04 - Delivering Keynote Speeches as a Side hustle Job
43:49 - Funding Reviews After Events
45:47 - 400m vs 800m
48:53 - From Sydney to Athens
56:29 - Focus During Running
59:46 - Beijing World Title in 2006
01:07:53 - Last Races Before Retirement in 2009
01:13:37 - Going into Broadcasting After Athletics
01:19:39 - Transferable Skills in Sports
01:23:23 - 5 Pillars of Performance
01:24
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Who Is Matt Haycox? - Click for BADASS Trailer
As an entrepreneur, investor, funding expert and mentor who has been building and growing businesses for both myself and my clients for more than 20 years, my fundamental principles are suitable for all industries and businesses of all stages and size.
I’m constantly involved in funding and advising multiple business ventures and successful entrepreneurs.
My goal is to help YOU achieve YOUR financial success! I know how to spot and nurture great business opportunities and as someone who has ‘been there and got the t-shirt’ many times, overall strategies and advice are honest, tangible and grounded in reality.
Paralympic athlete, keynote speaker, performance coach, tv presenter, celebrity master chef, to name but a few. Danny Crate, welcome to the show, thank you. Thank you for having me so much we can talk about today and, I guess, so many different avenues. I want to go down, but I guess, to set the scene, I want to go back in time to I think you were 20, 21 years old when you had your accident and I guess, talk us through where your life was before it happened, how it happened and, I guess, those changes that immediately came into your life.
Speaker 2:So I had my accident when I was 21 in Australia. I was doing my gap year out there. And how I ended up being out there. I was a trained. I was a trained engineer, I did an apprenticeship and as we come to the end of our apprenticeship they decided it was in the oil industry and it was a time when all the you know the individual trades were starting to die out and they said we're not keeping any apprentices on this year.
Speaker 2:So I was working for the mobile oil company and so I had a bit of time after finishing my apprenticeship where I was doing some odd jobs, and then got on a contract working in another oil refinery with an apprentice that I'd gone through my three years apprenticeship with. So we were both on a contract, a short-term contract, doing some work, and my cousin was out in Australia and I was finishing up my contract and I remember I was walking through the oil refinery my friend, gary Smith from Canvey Island was 300 foot up a tower doing some work and I walked through and I said Gary said I'm finishing up. Next, what were you doing? He said yeah, I've got a couple weeks left. I said do you want to go to Australia. He went yeah, like that, and that was it. That was the planning for Australia. So I, a couple days later, I went up, went into London, went into London, went to the embassy, got our visas, went to trail finders, booked our tickets and then, 13 days later, I went to Australia.
Speaker 2:So I did my year in Australia. Um, I had the best year ever. And then, unfortunately, about less than a week before I was due to fly home, I was involved in a car. I was doing my one last job out there, so I was so, ironically, I missed my flight home. So, being a young teen, like a 20-something idiot, missed my flight home, was working for a new flight home was doing my last job was driving from Brisbane to Airlie Beach. Airlie Beach is where I'd spent five months, so Airlie Beach was like a home from home for me. So it was the best way to finish. I was going to do this a pamphlet run, really, for another backpackers up the coast, stopping all different backpacker establishments, dropping off pamphlets, building relationships with them, and that was pre-internet. So you, basically, it was all about relationship building and then get to Ellie Beach, see all my friends say goodbye, go back to sydney, fly home after my my year and then, unfortunately, 60 kilometers from my destination, I was involved in this car crash and lost my right arm in the accident.
Speaker 1:So that was the changing point of my life, was it? It was just a freak accident. There's no stupidity. Drunk driving, no, nothing.
Speaker 2:I was driving on a highway. Are you driving? You were the driver. Yeah, I was the driver. I had the boss in the car with me. He couldn't drive, so I had to do all the driving. And then we don't really know what happened. There was just the bang and then I came to 15 foot down an embankment Out of the vehicle. In the vehicle still, but I still remember the passenger was next to me and there was an arm on my lap. So I went into a bit of a panic and he said I thought it was from another car. Obviously we knew it hit something. And he said don't look, Dan, it's yours Like that. And at that point he got out of the car. And he was at.
Speaker 2:he got out the car then he was out there and we're talking completely severed, yeah, literally just a severed arm, pretty much yeah tendons holding it together so it had come off from down on my lap and then so I couldn't get out my side, I had to get out his side. So, because he had gone now he was up the embankment, he was out there. So I um climbed out of the passenger side of the car with the arm.
Speaker 1:Carrying the arm. Yeah, I took the arm with me.
Speaker 2:And then, luckily, there was one house on the road, because it was a typical Australian highway, right, it was just one house and they heard it and they came running and this lady just tackled me to the floor and sat on top of me, that was it, and waited for the and sent her husband back to call the emergency services.
Speaker 1:Tackled you to the floor Because I was running around like headless chicken bleeding out.
Speaker 2:So she had to settle me down. So she pretty much just wrestled me to the floor, sat me down and sat on top of me, almost to hold me down, just to keep me there, and just kept talking to me the whole time until the emergency services came. You were conscious Pretty much. Yeah, I was actually having a conversation with her At the time. You don't know how bad things are, you just know it hurts. And so she was doing that, trying to keep me awake because I just wanted to go to sleep, and keeping me awake.
Speaker 2:And then the fire brigade were the first ones there. They turned up at the scene, they came down and they could smell the petrol coming out of the car. So then their first instinct to get me out of that situation so I remember this bit as well they put me on the stretcher and they was running me up the embankment, but they was taking me up feet first and I was sliding out the back of the stretcher and they were just trying to hold me on it because they just wanted to get me out of the way in case anything happened.
Speaker 1:And it was just you and your boss. You said just the two people.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I mean we and the car we had hit. Obviously, I know I only found all this out later, but what we'd hit we'd actually clipped going the other way. It's called a Ute. It's a flatbed truck and it was a 76-year-old local farmer driving it and he was actually up the road changing his tyre. He didn't come to help or anything, and, unbeknown to us, on the back of the? U was an eight foot bulldozer blade that he was carrying. So the bulldozer blade was longer than the truck, so it was hanging right at the back of the truck. So what happened was the cars clipped as we went past each other and then my car went around the back of his car and the bulldozer blade went through the car. So we had this massive blade that cut through the car. When you look at pictures of the car, you can see everything's missing from the side of the car, so literally the side of the car was cut apart. Is that?
Speaker 1:how you lost the arm. Yeah, it went through the bulldozer. Break up the arm.
Speaker 1:Wow, pretty much, yeah, hey matt here, just interrupting myself to say can you believe that 62 percent of listeners to this podcast don't actually subscribe? Now, I know you like it because you listen to it, you come back and the stats are great, but 62% of you don't actually subscribe. So make sure you subscribe, whether that's on YouTube, spotify, itunes wherever you listen to your content or watch your content, and make sure that you never miss a future episode. When you went to hospital I presume there was at some point you, because you're still in shock. You know you're in pain. You don't really know what's what. You have a general anaesthetic issue at some point and an operation, and then come to when you're a lot more coherent.
Speaker 2:Yes. So I was transferred to the local hospital, which was Serena in Queensland, and that that's where they stabilized me. And then from there they transferred me to Mackay base, which is their big hospital, and that's where they so I was still a conscious at this stage and then that's where they perform surgery. So I got to that one and then I always it sounds I had to give them not. I mean, if you're unconscious they don't ask, but if you're conscious they ask. And they, I almost had to give them. I mean, if you're unconscious they don't ask, but if you're conscious they ask. And I almost had to give them permission that they said look, we're going to try our best to save your arm, but if we can't save your arm, we're going to have to amputate it. So but you're just in shock, all you want to do is be put to sleep. You're just like just put me to sleep, I don't care.
Speaker 1:So at what point along this journey did you know that you were losing it?
Speaker 2:When I woke up, Okay, Like when you come round, but when you come round you're so drowsy, you're so your body's in such a state my body was in a bad state anyway, because I'd lost half my blood. I'd been through that traumatic incident that it takes a little while, I think, for you to even acknowledge what's happened. But in amongst all this as well, my parents have had the phone call back home middle of the night. Say no internet, no phone. So they get a phone call just saying your son's been involved in a very serious car accident. You need to come to Australia. But at that time I'm in surgery so the surgeons won't tell them. They just get told it's a very serious incident, you need to get to australia. So they think the worst, um, but they can't do anything because it's the middle of the night now what year is this.
Speaker 2:By the way, this is in 1994, I believe. You know I I it's quite funny because I don't actually remember the date and the month. My mum does, obviously, but I don't. Yeah, 1994. But they couldn't do anything like nowadays you'd be on the internet, you're booking the flights, getting your visas on luck, but they had to wait all night wait till Monday for trail finders again.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, well, mum, and dad had to get up in the morning, go into London to get the visa and then get the flights. And amongst all that, like family were. Then friends were coming around the house and they were packing because my mom was, you know, unable to do anything. She was in total state of shock.
Speaker 1:So people are packing bags for them I mean presumably by this point they know, they know that you're not dead.
Speaker 2:Yeah but they don't know the extent of the injury. So they know I'm just in a bad way so that I'm on intensive care, I'm on the drips, they so, they just so. It's 36 hours from getting the phone call to being on my bedside.
Speaker 1:And you come around. And the point you come around. Okay, you're tired, worn out, delirious, but at that point you also know the arm's gone.
Speaker 2:Yes. What is the feeling. It's strange because when you're in hospital, you're in a safe space, so you're in like a bubble zone, so you don't have to deal with a lot. You're in and out space, so you're in like a bubble a zone, so you don't have to deal with a lot. You're in and out of sleep because you're still not very well, so you sleep in a lot. The funny side of it is the news starts to travel and this is pre-mobile, so you have the old… To your friends, to your family.
Speaker 2:Yes, it goes around Australia first All the Australian friends and the backpacker community start to hear. So the phone starts to ring, and it's one of the old trolley phones with a massive cable on it. So every time the phone rings the nurses have to wheel this phone out.
Speaker 1:I'm too young to know what you're talking about. Yeah, yeah, of course, yeah.
Speaker 2:But of course, when it comes back to England and then some of my friends, you know, phone in the middle of the night because they've not worked out the time differences and things like that, and I still remember it One of my friends' phones, one of the first phone calls I took, and it's one of those things that I always hold on to now and it makes you realise how important friends are, because even in dark times they'll always make you smile, even for a split second, and when you smile you realise life will be good. You just don't know how long it's going to take. And the first one of the phone, first phone calls I took from a mate and answered the phone and the first thing he said was dan, I always said you was a shit driver. That's the first thing he said. And I was like, no, no, how are you? Like what's happened? That that was, and it just, but that's what mates do, right, and then, and then they just have more phone calls after that and how and how did you?
Speaker 1:I guess, how did you feel from that? Because, obviously, in the very, very brief bit of time we've known each other. You know you seem like a, a guy who's into jokes, into banter, whatever, but it's, I mean, and it might be one thing, bantering at it now when you're whatever, 25 years past the accident, but but, but at the time do you, even though it's your mates and you know he's kind of joking, the best for you? Do you? Do you still feel like you're joking with him or are you still in a a real state of shock? And my life, because I assume you just think the worst, that my life's over. It can't, it can't be. Yes, okay, you're not dead and it's an arm, but you still, I mean, I, I know I would think if I lost a toenail I'd be thinking my life was over.
Speaker 2:So I can only imagine how you felt, I think you're still in the safe space of the hospital because there was lots. So in the hospital there's lots going on. So one I remember the Rugby World Cup was on, the Rugby League World Cup and I was having bets with the nurses about who was going to win. I think we was playing Australia in one game and the loser had to buy the pizzas. I mean, it was almost like I was living a semi-normal life whilst having treatment. So because you didn't have to deal with anything, you just so I had that going on I was trying to persuade doctor to let me out.
Speaker 2:So six days after being involved in a car crash, three days after coming out of intensive care, I'd persuaded the doctor to let me go out with my mum and dad for lunch. Ten days after my accident, I persuaded the doctor to let me finish my journey to Airlie Beach with my parents. So we went to the place I was heading to and stayed the night in Airlie Beach. My mum and dad brought me back the next day so I could be discharged from hospital. So there was stuff like that going on. It's like I would in the early stages I'd have three nurses take when I was allowed to go to the shower, you know, a number of days into it. You'd take three nurses with you.
Speaker 1:I'd have three nurses because I was attached to so much, so much equipment right.
Speaker 2:So I'd have the drips, the monitors, everything on me. So the first time I was allowed well, it was probably a wash the first time right. And I still remember the sister came around the ward and once all the machines were off and I was stable enough to walk without falling over, she said you'll be okay, you can take yourself off and the next shift come on. I didn't tell her. I thought well, if you get free nursing tech, go with it right.
Speaker 1:25 years later, you've still not been discharged.
Speaker 2:But it's when I come out, it's when I come out, it's when I come out of hospital. So we had a bit of time in Australia because I'd lost half my blood but I didn't have a blood transfusion. Why? Because at the time I was borderline and at the time you've got to remember, back in the 90s, there was a lot of fear around blood, so they would only do it if they really really had to do it. And then, when I was conscious, they said, like you've lost a lot of blood. When you was on, we was ready, but we stabilized you enough that we didn't have to and so you, you're gonna have, you can.
Speaker 2:Now it's, you can have a blood transfusion, but you will recover a lot quick and you will recover a lot quicker in terms of you know, your energy and your ability to to fly home or you wait, your body will replenish your blood. It's just going to take time. So you just have to be careful, take time and see how it goes. And the doctor herself said, if it's me, I would go for option two and I just because at the time my mom and dad said can we him blood? So they had all their blood tests done to check what their blood was, and that was okay. But because I was over a certain age, they can't give me their blood. All their blood does is go in the bank. So we thought at the time they'd just give me their blood and it would be good. So anyway, yeah.
Speaker 1:So you can't, as a blood donor, you can't specify who it goes to, you just have to put it in the bank and take something else out of the bank.
Speaker 2:I think at the time if I was a certain age I could have had their blood. But I mean, I don't know what the rules are now, but yeah, so basically we had to spend another four weeks in Australia, just so I was strong enough to fly home.
Speaker 1:And how were you feeling about life and the future and you know, and the future, and you know, I guess, your future plans that you had. Did you think they'd been ruined?
Speaker 2:So my dreams and ambitions even though I wasn't pursuing them hard enough to make it happen was always to play rugby. Rugby was my thing. I played for the East of England, played for Essex, got my first team ties for the club I was at. So that was my kind of thinking of a potential. There was no, it wasn't really professional rugby then, it was semi-professional but that was, you know, to play rugby at a really good level and that I knew that was done. And I was an engineer.
Speaker 2:I knew that was going to be difficult, but I wasn't really thinking about the future at the time. I was just thinking about getting home. And bear in mind mind I hadn't been home for 13 months by this stage, probably nearly 14, so it's just getting back. That's what I was thinking of. There wasn't really any future plans at the time, but it's when I got back it became really difficult because I then realized I didn't have a plan. I couldn't just go and get a job, and that's when I found it the hardest, just not really having anything to do because I'd had people around me. As soon as soon as I got home, mum and dad had to go back to work, so I was left during the day on my own trying to find what I was going to do with the rest of my life.
Speaker 1:I know that's quite a lot of detailed or intricate questions about that Because I really wanted to get my head around the situation because about a month ago I had somebody else on the podcast, a guy who'd lost his legs. Long story short, he he was gonna sign as a professional football player. A week, a week later, um, and he, he was drunk one night. He was a big drink, a big party boy. He was walking down a train track and um fell asleep on the train track and got his, got his legs taken off.
Speaker 1:I haven't met this particular person, but I was talking to a friend of mine the other week as well who has a podcast, and he had a guy on english guy, forget his name who had some kind of blood issue and he had both arms and both legs amputated, as well as part of his nose and part of his mouth. And both of these people, they, they say that they couldn't be happier and you know they wouldn't have their legs back or wouldn't have their arms and legs back for all the tea in china. The guy I didn't met, uh, haven't met apparently he, he says before he lost his arms and legs he was just existing, but now he's living, you know, I think, I think a year after he'd had it all done, they strapped some oars to his shoulders and he rode to greenland or something. And then, you know, the year after, he's obviously put some something on his legs and he rode to Greenland or something. And then, you know, the year after, he's obviously put some something on his legs and he's climbed a mountain and he, you know, he says you know this, this is, this is my life, this is what I want.
Speaker 1:The guy who, um, who lost, who lost his legs from the football accident so the guy was going to be a footballer who lost his legs. When he tells a story, I mean literally, we sat down for the podcast and it was like podcast and it was like you know, take me back in time. He's like yeah, you know, I was going to play football, I had a drink, fell on a train track, lost my legs, thought, well, I better start an e-commerce business then. I mean, literally, it was like that was like whoa, hang on a minute, right, what the fuck? I guess my?
Speaker 1:My question, which I never asked of them at the time and just thought about later, is do they, do they play the big smiley face on this, because you have to be in that mindset and you know like he'll go oh, I wouldn't have my legs back because I, I love my life, I want my e-commerce business and you know and have the big happy smiley face. And is it that they kind of can't go back in time and talk emotionally about what happened and say that they want the legs back, because then that would be the realisation that the legs really aren't coming back. Does that make sense? Do you understand what I'm?
Speaker 2:saying yeah, yeah, I mean, I don't think it's.
Speaker 1:That's why I wanted to, I guess, really understand the setting to your situation and then see what you thought about them. And that comment really.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and you don't wake up from surgery and go okay, then let's crack on right. I think you go for a process and everyone's process is different. It takes a different amount of time. So some people heal quicker like the mental side of the healing and other people take longer. And of course there's a physical side as well. Some people have complications or more operations needed. It takes a lot longer and so with an arm, it's, it's pretty much. Once you're done, you're done. Right, I was. I was four hours in surgery, 10 stitches, job done. Um, you know you take longer to get wisdom tooth out. Sometimes it's, and I'd take an entire arm off. But so now would I change it? No, because of what it's done to my life. Like it's opened my life up. It's changed the the way I am. It's made me understand what it changed about me is.
Speaker 2:I talk about being a rugby player, but what I didn't understand was talent isn't enough back then, so I didn't work hard enough. I'd expect to go out on a Friday night and play rugby on a Saturday. I didn't get that. If you really want something, you work for it and you've got to be prepared to do something that the rest of the world aren't, because if you want to be the best in the world, you've got to go the extra mile. And the ones that are successful, the ones that do that. I didn't get that. Well, I got it, I just couldn't be bothered to do it. Something switched with me so that switch was flicked, which is how I ended up doing what I did and becoming an athlete.
Speaker 2:But when I look back, when I think about when I was going through the process at the time, I didn't really think I was struggling, didn't think I had any issues. I mean, you know, mental health wasn't really a big thing. Then you I remember the, the one who's got the lymphate incentive psychologist used to chase me around the room and I mean, I'm not, it was a bit of a running joke. Literally she'd be after me around the lymphatic center and I'll be like I'm not interested in talking. But um, when I look back now, yes, I can. There was issues, there was things I was struggling with and had I dealt with them better, probably would have had an easier healing process. But I don't think I had it too difficult, I don't think it was too much of a problem.
Speaker 2:So would I change it? No, but, of course, the practicalities of being an arm amputee. It's not the worst thing in the world, right? There's worse things that happen. You know, life can be complicated sometimes and there's things you can't do as well as you used to be able to do. So would I like two arms again? Yeah, it'd make life a lot easier. But would I change what happened to me? No, because what happened to me defined me as a person and led me down the path that I, that I've been down and I've had a. You know, I've had a really good life since my accident, so I can't you never know what would have been, because that's you know what would have been.
Speaker 1:Let's move on and explain how you ended up becoming in the Paralympics and moving from rugby to running.
Speaker 2:Well, I actually went, for I went. So my first love was well, my first love has always been rugby, but whilst I was in Australia before my accident, I'd learned to scuba dive and that was just like the coolest thing on the planet to me. So I had one of the best jobs I thought in australia. I was working for backpackers. We used to. We used to get loads of time off, so, or you know, if I was working nights I'd have the day off, so I'd just um, I'd go diving all the time. I actually loved it. Fair enough for scuba diving. But also noticed that scuba diving instructors are pretty cool people, right, and the way I word it is, when you've got male instructors on the boat, they get a lot of attention from the females and I was thinking, man, that's not a bad job standing in front of a boat having a load of ladies looking at you, wow. So I actually went back to Australia two years, three years after my accident, and I went back to Australia and I trained as a scuba diving instructor. So I went back to Airlie Beach my home from home trained as a scuba diving instructor and worked in Australia for nine months as an instructor.
Speaker 2:How different is that as an amputee, well, like so, scuba diving is a lot of it's like your classroom teaching and pool training and stuff like so some stuff is you're just going to do it Like I could dive. I was a good diver and I could adapt my equipment for anything I needed to adapt, but teaching the only element was I had to be very good at explaining stuff because I couldn't always demonstrate. Yeah, and they have to do it a certain way. It doesn't matter how I do it, but the students have to do it a certain way. It doesn't matter how I do it, but the students have to do it a certain way to pass. So there's certain things I can't do right-handed. So I had to learn to be very good at articulating how I needed them to do it.
Speaker 2:And then you get to the rescue part of being an instructor, because things do happen underwater. You've got novice divers. They're anxious, they're nervous, nervous. Things happen. So you have to be able to sort somebody out underwater or rescue them if they need it. And when you do get to that part of your instructor's course, there's no gray area. There's no like dan don't worry about. Like getting someone back on a boat or doing mouth-to-mouth in the water because you're an amputee, like we'll just tick it. It's like you do it, you don't do it, you pass, you fail. So I knew that. But but everything I've always had is a mindset of what's the worst it'll be. So if I can't do it, if I don't pass, I'll still be a dive master, which is like an underwater tour guide really, but I'll be much better because I'll have all the skills the instructors have. So I went into it with that mindset. But we found a way that I could do it and I could do it to a satisfactory level for the course directors and I passed and I worked out there for nine months and I loved it, absolutely loved being a diving instructor. I then came back to the UK and realized it's a lot colder in the UK and the River Thames isn't quite as exciting as the Great Barrier Reef so, and the North Sea very, very different. So I actually went for a stage.
Speaker 2:I was a shark display diver for a while and I worked in a sea life center a shark display, yeah. So I had nine. I had a whole summer period working in a sea life center, going in the shark tank four times a day. What do you do when you're in there? So basically the the staff will be on the other side doing a presentation about sharks and how endangered they are and everything to do with sharks really, and in inside. So you had an auditorium. So we had 200 people we could get in the auditorium at a time, did it four times a day. So a big presentation and then on cue I'd go in.
Speaker 1:They were thinking you lost your arm to a shark accident.
Speaker 2:Many people did yeah and I'd go in and swim with the sharks and we had nurse sharks and the reef sharks, wobby gongs we had 20 sharks in the tank. It it was great fun probably not the most intelligent job I've ever done with five fingers, but it was a good fun. So, and in amongst all of this, I had been approached by someone from the British Athletics squad. He was training some amputees and some of those amputees have competed in the Atlanta Games and you can't just become a Paralympian. It's like Paralympics is the very, very pinnacle of sport and British athletes only get to go to the Games really, if they're medal potential.
Speaker 1:How are they competing or training In the meantime? I mean, I guess if you're not an amputee or have any disability, then I don't know, you want to play tennis. You go to your local tennis club or something, don't you? And I guess you get better than you get seen. If you want to do these sports when you've got some kind of disability, where do you rock up to to start getting involved?
Speaker 2:well they're. Especially, there is specialist centers and sports clubs. Running is the easy one because it's running right and I'm and I've got no prosthetics to think about I've got legs, so I run like everybody else. There's other dynamics that have to be taken into account by the coach, but that's just finding a good coach, someone who's prepared to learn and that was my coach, who was prepared to learn. So I just went back to my local athletics club. But this guy had looked after some athletes. He had asked me a number of times how I thought about it because I used to be an athlete, so he knew that He'd read the papers, going back a little bit actually. So what happened was six months after my accident.
Speaker 2:I decided I had to put my life back on track. The rugby club was where I found that. So I went back to the rugby club. I started training again, didn't not initially start playing, but just to get fit and be part of that nurturing environment that is a rugby club. And then we decided our actual coach was an ex all-black hooker called hickoryd like formidable new New Zealand all black and he was my rugby coach. So he was coaching me and the physio was looking after me. He looks after the great and goodest sport, a guy called Kevin Lidlow, and he was looking after me as a physio as well. And so we decided that I was going to try and play rugby again, knowing that I would never probably make the first team because Thurrock, my club, was a big club. It was all the players I played with before my accident and that I trained with and the game was set.
Speaker 2:It was one year after my accident TV cameras were there, press were there because it was a big interest story Played my first game, scored a few tries and then after that continued to play rugby week in, week out. But because it was on the TV, someone had seen it. And then they contacted me and he said about going back to athletics, giving it a go, and I was just like I'm not interested in rugby, we drink Guinness upside down through our eyeballs. I said you don't do that in athletics, do you? And then eventually I went along to a squad weekend and I met some athletes and the reason I'd always sort of shied away from it was because I perceived it to be like disability to give it a go sport and I just wasn't ready to. I was doing everything I could to stay non-disabled.
Speaker 2:And then I met the athletes. And I met some athletes that had been to Atlanta and I listened to their stories about what it meant and how hard they trained. And one of them had just missed out on a medal by 100 for a second or something like that, and he was still broken two years later by that. You know being how close he was, and I realized that this is sport. It's high-end sport. So I just started the journey.
Speaker 2:I joined my athletics club, my old athletics club that I used to run for, started training with them, started working towards my first international, which was the 98 World Athletics Championships. Got offered a job in Spain as a diving instructor. So I went out to Spain, worked as an instructor, tried to do the best training that I could whilst being an instructor. Came, worked as an instructor, tried to do the best training that I could whilst being an instructor, came back, did the World Championships, got through to the finals the 400, came last in the final eighth in the world, and then, from that point, said, okay, right, so if I want to give it a go, if I want to try and make the Sydney Paralympics, I need to focus now, and that was the point from then on. When was that? 2000? The first games of 2000,. Yeah, so between 98 and 2000 was that journey to try and become good enough to become a Paralympian.
Speaker 1:Let's just take a pause before we talk about the journey, because I just want to backtrack to when you were playing rugby, because I feel like I need to see some videos of this. I'm trying to come to terms with you playing rugby with a non-disabled first team scoring tries with one arm. I mean, how the fuck does it work?
Speaker 2:I was eight, bear in mind, I'm like 22 at the time, so I'm sort of quite young, robust, full of testosterone, just slightly different techniques to do things. I'd had six months training before I played my first game.
Speaker 1:So you get a pass and you catch it with pass. And you what you? You catch it with one arm.
Speaker 2:Yeah, just catch it with one arm, pass it with one arm, it's quite. You know, I just had the ability to do it big hand so I can catch the ball and and carry two pint glasses in my hand.
Speaker 1:I think three three was my record, but yeah.
Speaker 2:So I just found a way to do it and it was just not being scared, right. And I remember so the physio who looked after me there's a couple of side parts to that story so he was looking after me throughout the process and I thought it was to strengthen my arm, but it wasn't, he told me many years later. He just knew I wasn't ever going to talk to somebody. So actually he was A strengthening my arm, my back, getting me ready. But also he was able to keep an eye on me because if I was going to start going in the wrong direction he would know.
Speaker 2:But I remember having a conversation with him when we were talking about playing rugby again, and I said look, kevin, I'm a bit scared, though what if someone turns me over on my head right and I land on my head and damage my neck, which is always a fear in rugby? Right, it doesn't happen very often, but there's enough cases of it. And his answer was Dan, you'll get turned over if you've got two arms. He said if you want to play, you play. That's my answer.
Speaker 1:Did anyone? I mean, did people try and go easy on you or not try, but did people, even if it was subconsciously, just give you a bit of a pass?
Speaker 2:Well, so the first game I played was against Gravesend, which is opposite side of the water to Thurrock, so we almost faced each other on the Thames and it's a famous game. It was like the first game Thurrock ever played, like 100 and something years ago. So every year they have an anniversary game and they play for a trophy. So they decided that would be a good one to do because it's got a bit of history to it. So the game was set. But then obviously the press got involved.
Speaker 2:So Gravesend turned up at Thurrock we're on the first team pitch, all the TV cameras are there, and so I was playing third, third team rugby at that stage. So the physio he had an idea and he said I'm going to introduce you to the opposition. So we went and knocked on the opposition's door, went into their dressing room and he said look, guys, you know why you're here today. It's Dan's first game back, you know, year after losing his arm. And he said I just want to tell you though. He said he's fast and he's strong. He said if you don't tackle him, he will score a try. I remember looking at the physio going am I, do I? Thank you for that? I don't know. Thank you for that, but it's probably what needed, right, they needed to know. So no, they didn't go easy on me. I mean, I've been hurt playing rugby.
Speaker 1:And were you doing tackles as well? Yeah, like diving with one arm. Yeah, tackling.
Speaker 2:You just get stuck in right and I've still. I mean, I played my last game of rugby about two years ago. I still played at the age of 49 anymore, and it hurts a lot more when I get hit.
Speaker 1:But when you play now, you only play in non-disabled games.
Speaker 2:Yeah, just normal mainstream club rugby. I'm at a different club now because I've moved, but I've been coaching for a number of years now. So for me that was the most important step on the road because that was the moment I realised traumatic things can and do happen but it wasn't going to stop me from doing the sport that I loved. That for me was a big turning point. That was almost that was the launch pad going forward. So I played, carried on playing after that week, just playing my rugby, like going out, you know, going and playing rugby with my friends on a Saturday. And some of the very close friends around the rugby community were ones that nurtured me. You know, after my accident Back in the day when they used to do the old booze runs to France, go over to Calais and stock up on beer. Then there was always the parties around the house. I was always around the houses, staying around the houses, you know, growing up with their kids. It was that nurturing environment that sort of got me through.
Speaker 1:Let's go back to Sydney then. So 1990, 80, 2000,. You decided you were going to train for it.
Speaker 2:Yeah. So getting through to the final of the 1998 World Championships showed me that I had the potential. The same physio that looked after me for rugby looked after a lot of international sports people and one athlete he was looking after was a runner called Donna Fraser who came fourth in the Sydney Olympics in the 400 metre final so one of the best female 400 metre runners in the world and he was looking after her and um, and she was in the physio room with me one day and her coach was a guy by the name of Ayo Falola and Kevin introduced me to Donna and Ayo and just said to Ayo look, danny's on this journey. He wants to try and make the Paralympics. Do you think you can support him?
Speaker 2:So Ayo had a conversation with me and he just said he said, look, I don't think you're ready yet to join my group because he's international athletes I'm still like that rugby mentality. And he said but look, here's some pointers, here's some guidance. You know, do this, do that, I'd put this in place. Try, know, do this, do that, I'd put this in place. Try and do this and and then give me a call once you know you've progressed a little bit and we'll. And one of the things he said was he set me a target to hit time wise, and it was the same time that donald was running at the time, and so I did everything he said put it all in place, phoned him up ahead of time and just said hey, you know that time you sent me, I've done it. So he's okay right, do you want to join the group? And I joined the training. What was the time?
Speaker 2:50.8 on 800, uh, 400, 400 at the time. So I joined ayo's training group and I became donna's training partner, predominantly because I could commit to being full-time as well. Um, so she now had someone full-time to train with. Um, we had other athletes in the group as well, but so I ended up being donna's training partner from or each other's training partners from 1999 all the way through to 2009 when I retired. So and I always say I learned to be an athlete from that training group, from Donna. She taught me how to be an athlete.
Speaker 1:When you have the Paralympics or, I guess, any kind of know para sport in general, do you have to have a certain disability? Or, for example, would you have someone with one arm competing against someone with two arms, and I don't know, you know, or is is it? Is it kind of um segmented together?
Speaker 2:no. So there's there's. There's categories, right. So? And then within a category, there's categories. So in the, and then within a category, there's categories. So in the amputee section we have the leg amputees and the arm amputees. So you split into two groups, but then in amongst the arm amputees, to be honest, we've only really got one now. We used to be more. But you fit within a bracket and you're either least disabled or more disabled in your bracket. So there can be someone in my bracket with no arms. There can be someone in my bracket with two arms and basically just lost one hand from the wrist.
Speaker 2:I was considered quite a high level because I've lost a complete arm. I've got a shoulder and a very short stump there, but not enough for the effects in running. So in running you use your arms. They're like a driving force, but most importantly, they balance you. So balance is not falling over Balance, as in keeping your body straight. So you lose a percentage of speed by losing the arm. They just don't know the exact percentage, but they know you do, but I never really complained because I was doing okay and I was beating people. So you have that.
Speaker 2:And then in the leg amputee section you have the below knee amputees, so below the knees, and that's divided into the single and the double. And then you have the above knees and that's divided into the single because obviously that impairment is so different. So that's the amputees. But then you've got the cerebral palsy, in similar categories, so you've got different groups within there, because you've got the ones that use the wheelchairs, ones that can run, then you've got the visually impaired, the three categories of that, so different spectrums. That goes through. We have a learning difficulties category. They have a few races, and then we have the height impaired athletes, so there's the other. So we've got yeah, so we run in our own categories.
Speaker 2:So how did you do at Sydney Bronze medal, 400 metres, stuffed up the race. Should have won the gold, not necessarily because I was the fastest, but just on that day should have won the gold. How did that make you feel as an athlete? It's devastating. You come off the track. You know you've underperformed. You don't mind winning the bronze medal if you've run the best race. You've made mistakes. You know you've made mistakes and actually if you hadn't made the mistakes you would have won that night. It's tough to deal with. You face up to it. You do your interviews after the commentary was brutal on me, messed up, the race went off too slow under pressure. But 100% right, I know the commentator that did it, so I still joke with him now. John Ridgen for Hurdler.
Speaker 1:Do they always use either former Paralympians or people with a disability to be the commentators?
Speaker 2:No, the commentators I've just come back from working on the Paris Games, I mean the commentary team I work with are very, very, very, very well-known, established commentators that are not from the world of disability and they've always used that because you want experts in the sport able to deliver the message of that sport. But they understand disability.
Speaker 1:It feels like they've been mean. You know they're not the non-disabled bullying the disabled for having a bad start.
Speaker 2:But that's what you want as an athlete, right? If you know you've done it, there's no point in them sugarcoating it. That's your job. That's what I do now. My job is to be honest, and I knew I'd made mistakes.
Speaker 2:So we came back off Sydney, regrouped and set about the journey working towards Athens. But in amongst that we was basically the 400 metres. You run it in slightly different ways. You can either you go out hard and fast, and so the quicker runners might do that sometimes because they're quick, but they're inside their 200 metre best. So they've got energy left.
Speaker 2:Where I was, I couldn't, I wasn't very quick over the 200 meters, so I'd go through the halfway marker, the 200 meters, eyeballs out. Really. I was flat out to try and keep up with the other athletes who had like two seconds deficit in there. So they was, you know, running within themselves and then I'd just have to hold on. So my coach tried everything to make me fit faster and we just couldn't make me physically any faster. So he said we've got to make you stronger and the only way we make you stronger is endurance. Stronger is you start doing some 800 meter training. So I started training like an 800 meter runner as well and in that training I was taking to it really well. So he said okay, let's try and run some eights and see what happens.
Speaker 2:We ran some eights and I ran well and it's like I think we need to switch the focus now. So I had a period where I was doing both fours and eights and then it become apparent that the eights were going to be. I always say in athletics the event will find you. It doesn't matter what you want to do, the event will find you. And the eight found me. And the eight was the direction I went in. And two years out from Athens we really focused on the 800 metres and that the four became a bit of a sideline and I would only have run a four in Athens if it had come after the 800. But it didn't, it came before. So I had to focus on the eight.
Speaker 1:How different are the times, you know, from the main Olympics to the Paralympics. You know what would someone taking gold in the 800 Paralympic versus non-Paralympic be?
Speaker 2:You're talking about 6-7 seconds so over half a mile.
Speaker 2:But that's the best in the world, the best of the best. So I would run club. I'd run Essex Southern Championships, I used to run the Olympic Trials, british Championships, so I could hold my own in athletics. But if you're going to the very best in the world, then there is a gap distance on us. Yeah, in my category anyway. But I trained completely non-disabled. The reason I did that and I trained with all the Olympians so we used to go because I was with my group.
Speaker 2:We'd go out to America every year training South Africa or Australia, but I wasn't training with any Paralympians, I was training with Olympians and that was really important for me because I wanted them to. I didn't want them to just see me as a Paralympian, I wanted them to see me as an athlete, an athlete first and foremost For me. I needed them to know how hard I worked to do what I did and they did so. My friends, you know my friends were on the Olympic side as well. So I've got lots of good friends that from the Olympic side, because that's where I trained, that's who I trained with. Now there's a lot more crossover. When I did that I was one of the first, and I did it under my own steam. Now the athletes will train in the high-performance centres, so they will train with the same coaches that train the Olympic athletes as well. So a lot of the coaches that were in Paris would have been out in the Olympics as well, just like my coach did many, many years ago.
Speaker 1:And when you started this journey of training and working towards Sydney and on, was that your full-time gig then? Have you had a job alongside this or do you devote yourself to full-time?
Speaker 2:training. So I was in that first wave of the lottery funding. You hear all the athletes talk about lottery funding and it's the world-class performance plan. So, based on what your potential winning medals are dictates what level of funding you sit on. So, as I became very highly probable that there was a chance I could take a gold medal, then I'm an a funded athlete which gives you enough to survive, like it's a decent level of funding but it's not, so you can concentrate on being an athlete.
Speaker 2:But it's not just the funding, it's what goes with the funding. That's important because with the funding comes all the support network that goes with it as well. So, because you're on funding, you then have access to the centres, the physios, the doctors, all the medical stuff that goes with that. So you know your medical insurance. So if you need to go off for scans, operations, they can send you wherever they want to send you to get you fixed. So that's the important part of it and I had all that. So I but I also worked on and worked as well. Um, she had a job and I think that was really important because for most people sport is a release from their day-to-day stresses. When sport is the stresses of life, then I think you need a release. A lot of athletes nowadays they're just athletes, they don't do anything else, and I think you need it. Doesn't matter what it is it could be study, it could be a hobby, it could be a little side hustle, and that's how I ended up getting into the speaking world.
Speaker 2:So, alongside being an athlete, I was delivering keynote presentations. It starts off you started right back then yeah, 2000. You basically start by getting asked to go and do them right. When you've got a medal, you get asked to turn up to things. You get asked to do the schools. You get asked to go motivate. And I was doing more and more and more. And then I remember it once I was traveling up to manchester the usual stuff. Someone said, oh, can you come? And you know we'll put you in a hotel and give you dinner. And I'm like you know I've got a bed at home and I've got food at home. I don't need a bed and dinner and I'm actually traveling. And you know you're getting paid. The person cooking the meal is getting paid. The person sweeping up at the end of the dinner is getting paid. Right, why am I not getting paid? I'm the supposedly your starter, so I ended up starting looking at turning it into a business.
Speaker 2:So I started working as a keynote speaker and was getting busier and busier because I was doing all right at it. I was out in Malaysia speaking. My coach was like it's great, dan, you go Malaysia, but you've still got to do your training sessions. You're an athlete and that's the deal we had. It didn't matter where I was speaking, but I had a training schedule to keep to and as long as I delivered my training schedule and nothing impacted what I was trying to do as an athlete, then I did it and I think it was important because it brought other things into my life that meant I could forget about athletics. Sometimes it wasn't my all and everything, and also it's important because it was giving me something that I could do when I was not an athlete anymore.
Speaker 1:So we go back to Sydney. You brought home the bronze, but you weren't happy with your performance. Did you know that there was going to be the next Olympics? You were already going to be not qualified, but they were going to keep you on. You were going to try again and improve that performance in four years' time.
Speaker 2:Well, that was the ambition. It's year-to-year funding. You're funded. So all the athletes that will come back from the Paris 2024 Games will go through funding reviews based on their performances in Paris. Some will be upgraded, some will be put on funding for the first time, some will lose their funding. It's sport. But a bronze medal gave me a certain level of funding. I can't remember now.
Speaker 2:I probably did get dropped down initially, but we was working towards a world championships. We had between Sydney and Athens. There was a world championship sitting in the middle, so we had Europeans as well. But the world championships was 2002 in Lille and that was the focus to take the gold in Lille. But that was the process as well, where I was doing the dual event.
Speaker 2:So I was still kind of a 400 meter runner, but I was training for the 800 as well. So I entered both events, did the 800 first, came fourth in the 800, which was good, first international, only just missing out on the medals. And really only missed out on the medals because I challenged for medals rather than just sitting comfortable. I challenged for silver, silver rather than just sitting in bronze and then. So that was fine.
Speaker 2:I was actually funded to be a 400-meter runner, so I had my main event coming up and then I came fourth again so I didn't medal in that championship. It's the only championships that I've ran in and never medaled, came back absolutely devastated and then lost all my funding. But the side story to that as well is the guy that did win the 400 metres and the 200 metres and the relay was one of my sparring partners in sport, a guy called Heath Francis from Australia. He's the one that won in Sydney as well, a good friend of mine, and he was actually coming over to Europe after the Games and he came back with me and stayed in my house with the gold medal from the event that I came forth, in which he liked to remind me of regularly.
Speaker 1:Is there a wild difference in the training and the skill set between the 400 and the 800? I mean, I guess, for example, a sprinter and a marathon runner are two very, very different people. But I mean, as a 400 and 800, is doing the 800 just like running as fast as you can for the 400 and trying to do it for a little bit longer?
Speaker 2:I mean the 800 is a fast race as well, can for the 400 and trying to do it for a little bit longer. I mean, the 800 is a fast race as well, so the 400 is you run your own race. You run in lanes, so you're doing your own thing. That's the key to it. You don't, you try not to be influenced by anybody else, because people run it in different ways, so you do your own thing. And the 400 is pretty, like you know, you're not sprinting, because it's not possible to sprint that far, but but you're close and the 400 is known for being grueling. The last 50 metres of a four can be tough and that's what you train for. Training's worse than racing, but I love that kind of training. The 800 has more endurance attached to it, so the ability to go at a slightly slower speed but keep going for longer.
Speaker 1:But it's still pretty quick and what's your time on 400 versus 800?
Speaker 2:My eventual personal best in the four was 50.23. Yeah, I never got under the 50-meter barrier. I had some injuries and I never made it. I never did it, but on paper, every athlete's on paper, but on paper I should have gone quicker. I mean, donna went under 50, and we, you know, we was matching, matching training, but I didn't do it. In the eight it was 153. So which was that was the world record? That I took Just one minute 53 seconds for half a mile of running.
Speaker 2:So, that was at my best, but it's. The eight is slightly different in the sense of you're not in lanes so you're in a pack. It's tactical, so it doesn't go sort of gun to tape at a speed that will get you three in one minute 53. Sometimes it can be quite slow and at the first lap, but at some point it all explodes and that's the hard way. You race it For the four you prepare to run the four one way. It's your way. For the eight you prepare to run the eight your way, the best way for you.
Speaker 2:But you've got to be able to counteract that with what if somebody takes off really early? What if it's a really slow race? What if, as I did in my Athens final, you've got a couple of Algerians in there and they're trying to get you boxed in so you can't do anything? What if someone spikes you because you're running in a pack? What if someone elbows you because it at the back of the pack? How are you going to get back to the front or up near the front of the pack? What if you accidentally find yourself at the front of the pack? You don't really want to lead an 800 meters out from the gun, but sometimes you accidentally find yourself there.
Speaker 2:So you have to be able to have all these different scenarios that you can adapt to and that really suited me. And also, running the eight was better suited to my sort of running abilities and my style, but it's still they are. They're not too dissimilar, they're far enough, apart that not you know, 400 meter runners don't do 800. I had to go through a process of changing up. It's just that, unbeknown to me all those years, I did the four. I probably wouldn't have better would have been a better 800 meter run. But because I did all the four training I was a lot faster than most of the 800-meter runners, so my sprint finish was stronger than theirs. That was my superpower, the sprint finish.
Speaker 1:So if we go back to the lead-up to Athens, so you'd lost your funding.
Speaker 2:I was back on it. So in 2003, I won the World Indoor Championships. So I was back on funding. I'd hit the targets I needed to hit. I was back on funding.
Speaker 1:On the times you were off funding, though you just kept yourself going because you were after dinner speaking. Yeah, I wasn't completely.
Speaker 2:I went down to a lower level so I had enough to survive. You used to get less money, but you still get your support services. But I was just getting less money until I got to a point where what would have happened off the back of 2002, they would have set a timeline for me to show that I was going in the right direction again, and I'd obviously done that showed I was going in the right direction, showed I was on course to take a medal in Athens, and then they would have put me back up.
Speaker 1:And did your training change in any way from Sydney to Athens? I mean, I guess you're always trying your best, you know you're always giving it your all, but did you? Did you do anything different, different mindset, different, anything to you know, to improve on that bronze?
Speaker 2:I think I became more dedicated, more committed as time went on, and I think that that's a gradual thing. The closer you get to seeing that you might be able to do it, the more you're prepared to give to it. So I was more committed to achieving that goal. The 800 meter training we tend to train twice a day, so we run in the evenings as well. So I was running more, so I was training more and I just everything I put around it. Sydney was my first games, so I didn't probably go there with an understanding of what it was and what it takes. Athens was a different ballgame because I went into Sydney expected to win a medal or a potential of winning a medal. I went into Athens expected to win the gold medal, whilst Athens I was better prepared for I also had a massive sort of weight on the shoulders of expectation, because the team is funded on medals. When they put their quotas in you're part of that they kind of want their result back from you. So there's a lot of pressure going into big championships.
Speaker 1:Tell me about the race. Is it one of those things where you can remember the race in every second of the way, or do you just remember going through the tape and taking the gold?
Speaker 2:No, I don't really remember. I had to go through the heats first. So I remember my heats were on at 9 o'clock in the morning the day before the final. So you're up at 5 o'clock in the morning to have breakfast to start the process. You then travel down to the track. You warm up on the track the warm-up track you're on, not the main track and the other seven athletes you're going to race within that same environment. You know that's where a lot of the mind games happen, because you're training on the same track, warming up on the same track.
Speaker 2:My coach was there. He'd flown back out, having been out of the olympics four weeks before, so he's there for me. There's british camps got a little contingent in there as well, so we've got a lot of marquee in there where the masses and other teammates are in there as well as they're preparing not too many at nine o'clock in the morning, because it was the first race on, but I remember then. And then you go 40 minutes before your race. You start the process, you leave your coach, you leave everything, you're taken into the call rooms and they sit you in a tiny little booth with seven other athletes and you just sit there and you wait and then they check your bags, make sure you've got nothing on you not allowed, you're not allowed stadium, and then they fit your leg numbers on. There's a little bit track under there you can run on. Then eventually they bring you out on the track, they introduce you to the crowd.
Speaker 2:Obviously there's not much of a crowd at 9am in the morning, but what there was was a massive group of my friends and family. There's about 30 of them and I knew some. I knew some were there. I didn't know all there and they were the only people in the stadium. That was pretty much it those and a guy sweeping up somewhere and they had the Union Jacks out.
Speaker 2:They were loud. They'd all flown out on the four o'clock flight from Stansted in the morning. They'd all been drinking since four o'clock in the morning because they're from Essex, that's what they do. So they were loud and I remember I couldn't look at them because I knew I wouldn't be able to cope, because I knew some were going to be there but I didn't know who was there and so I just did my heat. That's the hardest thing for an athlete If you're expected to win a medal. You're not going to win a medal if you don't get through the heats and, like I say, it's the 800 is. You know you can get tripped over if you find, or they can get you boxed in and you, they know I'm one of the dangerous ones. They work together.
Speaker 1:They hold you in. I was just going to say do they do tricks on purpose?
Speaker 2:Yeah, they'll hold it's called boxing in. You're like if you're running behind another athlete and there's another athlete behind you, another one will just come up on your shoulder and just hold you there. You can't go anywhere there. I mean you can and I'd almost be. I'm coming out now. You're moving, or you're moving, but you've also. You get spiked, you can get tripped. You see people go down in races so you've got to get through it to get into the final. So you make the final and then you I went and saw some of my friends then very briefly, because then you whisked yourself off to go and get ready.
Speaker 2:But you have a whole day to get through, the whole next day to get through with the nerves, the anxiety to be ready for your final, and I remember it. So I went to the warm-up track the night of my final to start my preparation for the race and, as promised, my coach was there because we'd had trouble getting him a security pass to get in on the day of the final. It was a busy day for the british team and they said they couldn't get in one. And I just remember it because I phoned him that and he just said dan, don't worry, I'll be in there and I never asked him how he got in because he had no. He had no security clearance to get in and, as you imagine, security is very tight at the games. You can't go anywhere without parts. But he was there, like as promised, and then, before I started my warm-up, he said come on, let's have a talk. And we went for this walk around the track. We used to do these like little chats with you to sort of get you ready. I was, I was ready for this. I was expecting some gladiatorial speech, right, that was going to fire me up. And he just went dan, you know what to do. That was it. That was his speech. And I just looked at him. I went hey, I know exactly what I'm going to do. And because he knew what to say, he knew what to say to make me feel good and he knew what not to say to make me feel nervous.
Speaker 2:So, and then we started the warm-up, started the preparation, and I had a race plan. I don't think I was always the fastest, but I was very tactically aware, so I could almost sense what was going on in a race. I could feel it. So my plan was to go to the front. Let someone come on my shoulder so that I didn't feel like I was leading the race Almost. Let them have like half a step in front of me on my shoulder, which also creates the wall, which means if anyone's going around, they're going around two athletes, not one. So I'd know if they're going to do it and then slow it down, because if I could slow it down, there's more chance of a kick finish and if there's a kick finish I'm better sprinter than most of them and that there's more chance of a kick finish and if there's a kick finish I'm better sprinter than most of them. And that was my plan and I managed to slow it down a little bit and my plan was to wait until the last sort of come off the last bend 90 meters to go, just start picking up. You can't sprint finish in an 800. You've already run nearly half a mile. You're not going to sprint at the end, but you can pick up a little bit sometimes. Really, you're holding form, you form, you're just holding your technique. That was my plan for 90 metres to go, 125 metres to go.
Speaker 2:The Algerian, samir Nounouar, had a different idea and he went with 125 to go, like just suddenly turned on the afterburners and he was off.
Speaker 2:But I knew it, I felt it, I sensed it and I reacted so fast that before he got in front of me I'd gone on like a half a meter in front of him. As soon as I did that, I just held that half a meter the whole way down the home straight, didn't pull it out anymore, just held it. But it's a long way down the home straight, because you can feel them, you can hear them, you can almost smell them coming like, but you, you can't do anything else about it. Right, you're going, you're at your max speed for you for that part of the race and if they've got anything else left, they're going to get you. But you, you don't know that you can't, so you're just literally hanging on, hanging on, hanging on, praying, asking for any help you can get to get you over that finish line I mean, do you have any other thoughts in your head or is it all just?
Speaker 1:it's just too fast, it's just head down legs going, you know? I mean you can't concentrate on anything else it's a process, running's a process.
Speaker 2:So before you're trying not to think too much about it, you're trying not to think about the finish line and the end result, because you've got a lot to do in between. You've got a process to get through In the 800, you've got to get the good start, you've got to get into the right position, you've got to stay out of trouble, you've got to work the turns, you've got to sort of shake yourself up a bit at the bell. What's ready to work? The turning of the bell is the last lap marker. Yeah, so any long race on the track, the bell tells you it's the last lap and obviously that sometimes sends everyone into a bit of a mad frenzy. You'd be ready for that, but get yourself ready for the back straight. The back straight. The last second lap is the one. You've got to make sure you you're ready to react. There's no good being stuck in because if they go at the front and you're boxed in, you can't get out. You're not going to react quick enough. So you've got this process. So that's what you're focusing on all the time.
Speaker 2:You don't really think about the finish till you cross the finish line, because we see it enough. In athletics, someone's leading by five meters down the home straight and there's one coming through fast and the one at the front's tying up and treading water and digging deep and they get them on the line or they just don't get them. So you're just getting through that process. It's only when you cross the finish line you realise you've done it. What was that feeling when you'd done it? Mainly relief. It's just a massive feeling of relief.
Speaker 1:What more relief than joy and excitement?
Speaker 2:Yeah, more relief than joy because of the pressure that builds before you do it. So it takes a little while to sink in when you do something like that. And then obviously I've got my friends and family going bonkers in the corner. So you go over to them, you get the flag, you start your lap of honour. But even the lap of honour is a strange environment to be in. You can't prepare for that. You prepare for everything in sport, but you can't prepare for what it's going to feel like when you win the race and when you do the lap of honour.
Speaker 2:You go in the lap of honour. It's brilliant when you're with your friends or with a big British contingent there, like a load of athletes have come down to watch, or their families, and you know it's yay. But suddenly you find yourself in like the Australian contingent and they're just clapping and cheering you but you don't know them right and you're like hi, like that. It's a bit of a no man's land you find yourself in. Then you go off, you get whisked off for the medal ceremony process and that in itself is a process you have still haven't got back to your family properly like you've, because there's normally barriers and things between you can't get to them and then you're held in a waiting area.
Speaker 2:Sometimes at championships you'll have doping control as well, so certain athletes will get pulled for doping control. It's a random system, so they'll just say okay, in this, in the men's 800 minute final we're going to take places one, four and eight. Sometimes they'll take everyone, sometimes they take no one, so it's just random. They literally go for the position, not the athletes. They go right, you was first, you uh, you've been called for doping. So you then go and do your samples and stuff like that. So there's always different things you got to do, but it just takes gradual time to sink and I think the first time you have the, then you eventually get your medal. You're on the podium, the national anthem, all the stuff we dream of. But I think it's the bit when you get back to your friends and family. That's the bit that gets you the most. I think that gets you the most. I think when you sort of go and hug your parents or your coach or your best friends and you see what it means to them, that's the bit that gets the athletes.
Speaker 1:And you carried on after Athens. You didn't retire until 2009,. So you got another Olympics out of it.
Speaker 2:Yes, I carried on, I went on. I finally got my world title in 2006, a title that took me nine years to win. I had the world record. I broke the world record in 2004 before the Athens games still had that, so I was ranked number one in the world. I was part of the 2012 bid team, so I was working with the uh, with the London organizing committee, to try and you know bring the games to London. So I was on stage in Trafalgar when they made the announcement in 2005, with every ambition to run in London.
Speaker 2:Unfortunately, time and injury got the better of me in the end. So I was heading towards Beijing. Beijing started really well. I was training in South Africa and I was in the best shape of my career. I'd never been fitter. I was fitter, faster, stronger than I was for Athens and I came back from South Africa. Training was on the track one day back started playing up, went into into physio, went into spasm, was unable to move for a couple of hours, ended up in the scanners, the medical centres and they I tore a disc in my spine, which sounds horrendous, but it's not the worst injury.
Speaker 2:It's a disc tear just from training, just over training yeah, just not over training but just training had a period of recovery, got back out on the track. Then I damaged my soleus muscle, which sits just below your calf, damaged that tore, that and then, coming back from that, I had Achilles tendon problems, just really struggled that year after that from being in the best shape of my career. I still remember my coach. There was a period before I got injured. My coach was saying he was doing things in training to slow me down. I was running too fast. For that time of the year I was running like the speeds I was running I should have been running later in the year. In that stage, early stage of years, it's more like the quantity of runnings up, the intensity is down, so you're doing the fitness. But I was just flying and he was trying to sort of slow me down a little bit. But then and I got injured and I had five months where I was unable to run. They tried, they threw everything at me trying to get me to be able to run again. I was seeing all specialists and we just couldn't work out what was going wrong. It was all to do with the achilles and the slass.
Speaker 2:I was training on specialist treadmills trying to get me able. Local gravity g trainers, like anti-gravity treadmills, were very, very like new at the time. There's only three uk-based ones. Well, one was abroad, um, but it was for uk use and then we're two in the uk. A really, really unique piece of kit had me on those. They injections and all sorts and there was a brief window in the so I'd have to cross train so I'd be doing the same sessions I would have been doing on the track, but I was doing it on a bike and my training partners would be outside of the track and I could see them and I was inside on the bike and it was killing me, it was breaking me. Athletes are not good when they can't train and you can do it for a little while doing sessions in swimming pools. In the end I ended up getting a normal bike and going out on the road sometimes because I just needed to be outside, and eventually I was able to run again.
Speaker 2:And I was able to run again in the July and I hit the track hard, fast and qualified because you have to have qualified. So basically, the Paralympic organization will set a standard for the 800 meters. They say every athlete must meet this standard, which is a time the British team will say well, that's the time everybody else is doing. We're not sending an athlete to do the same as everybody else because they'll be 16th in the world. Our time is going to put them in contention to win the medal, so their times are much stricter. So you've got to get through the British time.
Speaker 2:But I did. I ran the time that I needed to qualify and then two weeks later I was on a plane to Beijingble to run again, not in as great a shape as I wanted to be, but I knew I still had time. And then we went to the holding camp, which was Macau, in Hong Kong, and in the holding camp I remember we got off the airplane next day, got up, went to go for a gentle run just to sort of get the journey out of my legs, went for a run and just felt this pain in my soleus again and then was just unable to run, was really, really struggling to run and they was just trying everything. Every time I'd go down the track to try and run, I just had this pain that was stopping me from running all the time.
Speaker 2:We got to the opening ceremony. The day before the opening ceremony, they announced that I was going to be the flag carrier for the Great Britain team, which is the greatest honour. We've just had our 17th Paralympic Games. There's only ever been 17 flag carriers that walked into the stadium with a flag and I was what? Four games ago a little longer than that actually and you're chosen by your team to carry it across all sports, and that was me. That was my honour and it was the greatest honour to walk out in the opening ceremony.
Speaker 1:It's one person for the whole of England across. It's one person for the whole of the English across every sport across everything.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it's amazing. So I had that honour. I walked out in the opening ceremony. If you see the photos you can see that I was in trouble. But there's a couple of things because I got my kit quite late. There's a couple of funny things that happened there.
Speaker 2:Beijing One I went to put my trousers on. You have walking out outfits for the for the opening ceremony, so I put my trousers on. They're a bit short. Some of my teammates thought it was very, very funny because I had this pivotal role to be at the front. So I'm asking them I look, swap trousers when you come on. Just give me some trousers. They're going to be long enough and there's no chance, right, that's happening. They thought it was too funny, so my trousers were like hanging above my ankles and then I walked out in the opening ceremony.
Speaker 2:So then the next day after that massive high, the plan was I had one week till my race and the plan was from the medical team was to wrap me in cotton wool and just because I was one of the focal athletes, I'd done all the interviews with the press. It was to basically put me on the start line, press go and hope. And I just said I don't think I can deal with that. I don't think I can deal with that, I don't think I need to know I can run. So one week before my race, the day after the opening ceremony and you remember, I couldn't go to the track because my competitors were at the track can't have them seeing what I'm doing. So we went to the athlete's village where you live. We went and found out the darkest corner of the village, right up against the security fences, out of the way there was me, the doctor and the physio and they'd put some anesthetic into my around my salas and achilles, just to try and take away any pain that I might feel. And I just had to do. We was just going to try and run, just some gentle, stride running. So I did a couple and it was okay. And we said, okay, we'll just do one more and then we'll call it a day.
Speaker 2:So I was striding and I was just easing off, just slowing back down again, and then it went bang right into my soleus. That felt like someone had stabbed me and I remember just sat on a wall, just sat on a wall with the doctor, the physio. They radioed through, they had to get a golf buggy thing to come and collect me, took me back to the gb house, put me in the physio room there's nothing I can really do they start icing me. I stayed in that physio room all night like every four hours the physio was coming in re-icing me, re-strapping me. Next day we went for a scan, went, scanned it there's they could see a tear, but there's still a lot of inflammation because of the swelling. So I had to leave it another couple days, go back, had another scan and it showed up that I'd torn my soleus and there was no way it was going to repair in a week.
Speaker 2:So we had to make that really tough decision that I was going to pull out the games. So I had to go to the Bird's Nest Stadium for the second time, but this time under different circumstances, and stand and do the interview. I think it was Steve Cram and Tanigwe Thompson, I think, did it. But I had to do the interview and just say, look, I'm withdrawing from the Games. And ironically, behind me was the 1,500 metres in my category, so a lot of my competitors were actually on the track racing. As I was saying, I'm not going to be running in Beijing and I took a decision that the decision was I wasn't going to stay in Beijing as a bear with a sore head. I was going to go home because it's not fair on the other athletes. They basically just packed me up and I went, got an airplane and flew home and as I was going back to beijing, my mom and dad were coming out to beijing, so we sort of crossed in the air we'd had the conversation, they knew I was going home, but they went out.
Speaker 2:And they went out because they you know there's other athletes they wanted to see as well and I just said, go, you know you need to go, it's this doesn't change anything. And I and I came home and started that process of healing, really getting over that period and getting myself back again, and then I eventually I got back running. I ended up tearing my hamstring in a freak accident there was no.
Speaker 1:When you were traveling back from beijing, you still thought there'd be more. There'd be more opportunities, more races. You didn't have a niggling feel that that was the beginning of the end. No, not at all.
Speaker 2:I mean I knew I was getting as old as an athlete, but I mean I knew, building up to Beijing, I'd never been faster. So I then was preparing for the following season. I was getting ready for a race and I tore my hamstring in training one day which happens to athletes right, there's nothing to do with age but it was really frustrating because I needed to. I had a set time. I had to prove that I was back, and so I tore my hamstring and this was coming up to the World Cup. I went through the process of getting me ready for the World Cup. It was probably a few weeks too early to race, but I felt I had to race. So I was back running again. I went and raced in the World Cup, manchester. I was doing okay, top three position, coming around 200 metres to go, my hamstring went again. It just wasn't ready to race. As soon as you start opening up again and it's the only race internationally I've never finished went down on the track.
Speaker 1:I was going to say. When it goes like that, you go and you drop.
Speaker 2:It's not like you feel it twinge and you drop down a bit slow, yeah, but it wasn't completely torn in half, but it was torn. So there's that painful five or six steps you take before you can stop. So you're slowing down and then you eventually drop to the floor and I remember. So I was sitting with all the ice on and I sat with the performance director that was still at the track, just sat there having a cup of coffee, and I just said I think that's it done. So we agreed, we set a date for my final race. So it was going to be at the Crystal Palace Grand Prix, which is a big event. It's the Grand Prix series at Crystal Palace. So on a home track track I used to train on, and they agreed that they was going to bring over some of my competitors that I'd raced with, so it was going to be a proper race. So I had to be nurtured through to that. So we had enough time for me to train and get ready.
Speaker 2:So I knew what the date was and I ran my last race in Crystal Palace, which was great. It was an honour to do it, to go out like that in front of a 19,000 sellout crowd, be introduced to them, then be told it's my last race and race against people I've raced with throughout my career, but obviously sad because you make the choice to quit but you never know if you should have gone on longer or tried for London or. But I came third. You know I was still in amongst it all, but that was it. It was my last race, but there was. I did do one other race after because I started athletics when I was 11 years old for Thorough Carriers and I still race, promised them and I always said like the last time I run it won't be in the GB vest, it will be in the vest that I started the career in, which was when I was 11 years old.
Speaker 1:And that's in the non-disabled category. Yeah, just running for my club.
Speaker 2:So the week after I officially retired from international athletics, I went down to a wet track in Basingstoke with my team and held a promise I'd held throughout my international career. So the last time I raced was in one of their vests.
Speaker 1:And how did that last race feel? Were you ready by that point, or was it still a sad question of what was next?
Speaker 2:I hadn't really thought about what was next when you retire from sport. It's brilliant because you can do all the stuff you couldn't do in sport Eating and drinking. Eating and drinking mainly, yeah, go on holidays at normal times of the year, so you're thinking about stuff like that. It's only later you start to mourn that structured lifestyle, the identity of being an athlete, the fact you're not as fit anymore. But that comes a bit later.
Speaker 2:The initial stages can be a bit just fun. So that race was great. I ran. Well, I remember they always used to try and get the 50 to do the 1500 and I hated it so I'd always be no, and I was trying to get someone to do it and I said you want me to do it? It was like, yeah, go on in. So I ran the 8 and the 15 and the 4x4. I actually ran the fastest 1500 meters I've ever run. It wasn't a hard target to be because I wasn't really good at the 15, but it was my fastest ever 15 was in my last race on the track, but yeah, that that was sort of the end of my international athletics career and then I switched my attention to try and make it in the world of broadcast.
Speaker 1:Um, that was where my intention was and to carry on building the, the speaking world how was the recognition of of the paralympic side of things evolved during your time in it?
Speaker 2:I mean up to now yeah, when I was first started it wasn't really, which is why I was conscious to train with the Olympians, so they saw me as an athlete. Now we know what Paralympics are. We know what it means to the athletes, we know how hard they have to train to get there. The exposures I mean. When I first raced in Sydney it was like highlight shows you'd see and a lot of events we'd go to. We'd never see any TV airtime Now would never see any TV airtime Now. You've just had the Paris Games. It's like wall-to-wall coverage by Channel 4. Is there still further for it to go? Oh yeah, because it's not every day, it's once every four years. Occasionally they'll do a World Champs if it's on home soil or they might just do a highlight show of the World Champs. But we still need to get to a point where it is every day and it's consistent. What? Where it is every day and it's consistent. What will make that happen?
Speaker 2:I think interest the sport, growing people's engagement with it. You know people were interested during the Paris Games, but they need that interest to carry on. They need to follow the athletes, they need to support the sports that they're interested in, because if you don't have that, then the broadcasters are not going to do it. So you need to create that interest, but the only way you do that is by the broadcasters are not going to do it. So you need to create that interest, but the only way you do that is by the broadcasters being prepared to put it on more regularly.
Speaker 2:So when you have a world champs, european champs, but you need more athletes coming through, you need that, that strength in depth, so that you've got good quality racing all the time across the minutes, some amazing races, but you still have, you know, you still get some classifications that aren't as strong as others in terms of the depth. So you need that depth. You need to know that when the race is on, it's tight, it's fast, it's one false move and you don't win, which it is on most parts now. But it just needs that. It's momentum, it's carrying on momentum that we have from the games and taking that forward.
Speaker 1:Let's talk about life after athletics. Obviously, during this time time you were already doing um, the, the motivational speaking, keynote speaking, etc. But, uh, you wanted to transition into broadcasting, had you?
Speaker 2:done any of that already. At that point I hadn't delivered like so in terms of the broadcasting side, I've I've always been the one of the athletes that always work with, so I was comfortable in front of cameras and things like that. So I figured and the speaking, and you know, teaches you how to present your voice and things like that. So I figured speaking teaches you how to present your voice and things like that. So I figured it would be a transition that I would do. It was harder than I thought. The world of media is a tough world and you've got to be prepared to bang on doors and it just wasn't me. I just thought they'd come knocking for me.
Speaker 1:How did you do it? Did you get an agent or something at that point, or did you go out knocking on doors of people that you knew in the space?
Speaker 2:Just relationships that I had with the media themselves from stuff that I'd done. I mean I'd done all the shows throughout being an athlete, been on all the usual you know the question of sports and things like that. I'd done all that so I thought I would progress into that. There's two sides really doing the shows, so like going on to the shows, eventually did celebrity master chef and some other daytime stuff I've done. I did a stint with bbc doing a food program. I had a radio show for a while.
Speaker 2:I've done different little bits but to actually break into it and make it your job was sort of something I wanted to do. But I also didn't necessarily just want to do that. The keynote speaking and having like the performance business was where I wanted to be as well, so that the TV adds value to that and helps you, and I love doing it. I love the live sport, I love working on it, but also I like my business side. I like having the keynote business side and obviously that has adapted over. You've been doing it for 25 years so that has adapted from telling a yarn about me running around a track to you know that part of it is about the journey and how I went through that journey of being pulled from the wreckage of a car to standing on a podium. But it's all those transferable skills. That's what I really focus on now.
Speaker 2:But the media side but it never really happened for me. The media I did bit, so I I ended up working on 2012, which was the big one. So I was working in co-commentary and as a pundit and envision presenter for that and absolutely loved it and hoped that off the back of that I would get more work. But there wasn't more work like. So. I've done everything in between, most stuff in between, from London all the way through to Paris 24, 12 years. But we only have the major events once every couple of years. So it's not a consistent job and I've done some other bits.
Speaker 1:Do you enjoy the other bits like the celebrity MasterChef and stuff?
Speaker 2:Yeah, I mean MasterChef was hard, but there's a reason chefs make mistakes on MasterChef and that's because of the pressure they put you under. But it was great fun, Do you do much cooking.
Speaker 2:Anyway, I love cooking, I mean I'm. I always say I'm a good, I think I'm a good cook, I can cook, but I can't create, so I'm no good. If you, if you, show me how to cook something, I'll cook it and I think I'll do a very good job at it because I like food, I'm just interested in it. But what I'm not very good at because I've never really sort of ventured down that road so much is is putting the stuff together and creating and presenting and the food itself. That's where I sort of ran out of talent, probably when I cooked in the five-star restaurant in the Shard, when we, you know, if someone says, cook this like this, I could do it, you know, and stuff that I know well. I love the grill barbecue. I'm always grilling, even in the winter. My grill's undercover out in the garden. I'll cook a steak in the middle of February in the snow. Those kind of things I think I can do well. But it's just I've got as far as I think.
Speaker 2:My talent allowed me to go a master chef. How does it affect you? With the one arm, just find ways. I mean, that's one of the things I got told off by Greg and John a master chef, because I was trying to chop everything up and they just said, like Dan, there's machines and tools that will do that for you, but I was trying to do it all one-handed. I famously went a master chef and said at least one arm, I won't cut myself with a knife. And I managed to do that. So what did you cut myself with a potato peeler. But their potato peelers are razor sharp. They're not like. They're not like our one in our kitchen drawer that's 15 years old Grandma gave us and it's still the one we use. These ones are like razor sharp. It just taught me a lot, but actually I use that in my presentations as well, because to do martial shift I had to step outside my comfort zone, and I talk about that a lot in sport and it's the importance of stepping outside your comfort zone and it's all about not necessarily doing things harder or faster. It's about doing things differently, finding different ways of doing something, which is what I had to do in athletics.
Speaker 2:You can't, if you want to get faster in athletics, you can't just train more because you're already training as much. You should already be trained as much as you can train right, unless you're a young athlete growing. So you have to train smarter. You have to find little tweaks to your training regimes, your diet, your, you know the, the resting, the medical attention you're using. You find these little tweaks and you train smarter and that's the reference I use that for. But those opportunities came and you take them when they come because it's exposure for you and I like doing it, they're good fun.
Speaker 2:But I love the world, I love the live sport. So, having worked on three, four Paralympic Games, now covering live sport, being the pundit and I actually going back to what I remember I said earlier in this conversation about the pundit, the Olympic four-hurdler John Ridgen, who commentated on me and he was nice, brutal, honest, so he wasn't horrible to me. He didn't say idiot, screwed, he said he made mistakes. It's cost him in the later stage of the race which meant his technique fell apart, true, factual. That's exactly how I am as a pundit. I try to do that because I think that's what the athletes deserve. If you say to an athlete, just because they've got disability, I there's others, you say they have a real chance of winning this medal, like they've, world world lead, world champion. You know this is, this is an expected race, and if they do it, you say that's amazing, right?
Speaker 1:if they don't, it's well, they didn't, because this is what they did wrong as, as a pundit, that's your job, so I try to be exactly the same you mentioned the worst transferable skills and you know there's often a lot talked about well, always a lot talked about, I guess, about what you can learn from sport and transfer to business and and and vice versa, in terms of someone who's been through the accident and you know, I guess, thrive, thrived with a disability. Do you think you have or do you talk about any different transferable skills or or any experiences that people who aren't in your position can benefit from in business or can use to further and better their lives?
Speaker 2:Yeah, I mean, I think the transferable skills they run through. You obviously have different ones. Different people have different skills they will use and lean on, but it's how you articulate those skills and that's obviously where my expertise will come in. It's how I look at what I learn from sport. It's what I've learned from business. I've been working with businesses, not only because I'm working in businesses for 25 years, I'm working with them and I'm learning from them as well. So it's a combination of what I've learned from business, what I've learned from sport and everything I do is my own creation. So there's nothing that's from exec coaching, it's mine. It's what I've designed and practiced and delivered on for many, many times with success. So it's most of my stuff is mindset.
Speaker 2:The way I look at it is you take something quite complicated. So the way I word it is running is really simple. You put one foot in front of the other faster than seven other people cross the finish line first. You win a race. But of course, within that simplicity is the complexity of running, the running, the motion of running itself and also the, the how you put the race together, the tactical part of the race. And if you get it all right, then you can be successful. Sometimes that might mean winning, sometimes that might just mean doing the best race you've ever done. So you take that simplistic approach and then you break it down and you try and make the complicated part of it look simple as well, because from that simplistic approach it becomes achievable.
Speaker 2:So I will use a story of trying to find four seconds over four years, which is an insurmountable mountain. In track and field it's 30 meters, and you're already training 14 sessions a week, can't add more sessions in. So you're left wondering how do I find four seconds? How do I find 30 meters? I don't know what else I can do, but I use how we broke it down and how we looked at it very differently and how we got to a point where we focused on a quarter of a second every three months, quarter of a second every 12 weeks. That's all I had. That's what me and my coach worked towards getting better, get, get faster, get one quarter second better every three months and then in four years time you can race for that gold medal. You might win it, you might not win it. You can't control what the other athletes are going to do, but you can put yourself in the best possible position to win that medal. And that's what we did, that's how we did it and that's.
Speaker 2:It's that real simple mindset, stuff with some of the complicated stuff that sits behind it is what I do. But I try and get people to understand that you get down to this athlete mindset of how can I be one percent better each and every day, what can I learn today that I can take into tomorrow? And then you build around that, you build around the process of how we you know we have that vision, that goal strategy as an individual or team. But for me, goals, visions and strategies and you know, be it the business one or the personal one, it's, they're just words. We can all, we can all come out and say we're going to do something, but you've got to have the second.
Speaker 2:I call them my five pillars of performance. You have to have the second pillar, which is the why, the passion, because if you haven't got that, you're never going to do it. I can say I want to be number one in the world, but if I'm not driven enough to do it, I'm not going to put the work in, I'm not going to get through the tough times, I'm not going to get through the injury, the illness, the setback. So you've got to have that purpose, that reason that sits behind it. What are the other four of the five pillars? So, yes, you have the goal, the why, the purpose. Then you have to plan that journey, because you can't do it just. That's the strategy. Yeah, how are you going to get there? What do you need to do to get there? But with an understanding that that's your roadmap. But you're probably going to deviate off of that. But if you haven't got it, you've got nothing to deviate off of. So you've got to have the initial blueprint that you're going to work to. Then you've got to surround yourself with talent.
Speaker 2:You need the team, because no one, even in individual sport, can be successful, and I did a piece piece around how AO built the team.
Speaker 2:How, even though we're all individual athletes, even though how we're all very good at what we do, in amongst what we do, we all have strengths, so some athletes are better at certain things than others. And how we can utilize those strengths to help each other. And how we turn up every day ready to perform, because we know that it's impacting the other athletes as well, just like in business, right, you need everyone to perform, you need everyone ready to deliver so that, as a team, you collectively, and then the last one is the, the incremental gain, the marginal gains, that whole four seconds over four years. And then you reflect it all back to the business that you're working with at the time and often they've got target, they're working towards or, and you can, you can take that and you can make it simple. And and then I do a lot of stuff around culture with teams and how you build that high-performance mindset within the team, done through workshops or done through presentations.
Speaker 1:What is a typical business client for you? Are we talking small SME businesses, big international companies? Are you dealing with the CEO or the sales staff?
Speaker 2:Do you have a niche that you excel in, so normally big international, although when COVID hit, it enabled me to work with smaller businesses that wouldn't normally be able to afford me to go and deliver a keynote for them. So that opened up a new world for me. And if it's a keynote, it can be any area within that business, because it's usually at a conference. If it's me working within the organization, going in, working with a specific team on a certain area, then it's normally that senior leadership, management level, ceo, mds leadership because it's about how they A work better than set, move further forward themselves, but it's also how they engage the rest of the team. It's all about engagement, getting the team. It's no good setting yourself in a direction if the team doesn't come with you. So it's how you engage with them.
Speaker 2:We do it in lots and lots of different ways. So through the facilitated workshops that I work with other people as well. So the way I work is my expertise is in performance and how you deliver performance. But if I need expertise in people management, then I have someone who is a ceo level and director in one of the biggest recruitment companies in the world. So if you're talking about people management, then you bring in someone like that, who's got that level of expertise in business management?
Speaker 2:That's how I work now. So I work with somebody else with that area of expertise and mine is the performance side and the coaching side I coach. I've been coaching for many, many years people on their own personal development, usually around that senior leadership, because normally always with them, it's them reintroducing that balance back in their life to enable them to be a more effective leader. They need to be a more effective person at home. They go together, it's the same person, and often one is sacrificed for the other. So it's helping them do that, whilst also putting the right structures in place to help them on their career journey as well if they're looking to progress career-wise.
Speaker 1:And when you're dealing with a business owner, with a CEO, what typically do you find are the common barriers or the common blockers that they complain? Once they complain, maybe they don't even notice what's holding them back.
Speaker 2:Often what's holding them back is that balance piece. I find a lot of the time a lot of my coaching work is them getting that balance back in their life because work takes over sometimes. It's strange how people in very senior positions often lack confidence sometimes, so going for the next position they don't feel confident enough to go for that. Like you know, going from a director to CEO your job is to challenge them on that. Why would they not when they've got this experience here and helping them put the right things in place? If they need to add something in to enable them to go and do that and often it's you know, what's holding them back or what's frustrating them is the team over here. So it's delving into finding out what it is with that team that's causing them the problems and what they need to do.
Speaker 2:A lot of the time you find, with leadership as well, is people have almost. They feel they've accelerated too quick so they kind of tread water a bit and it's allowing them to regain that confidence that they had in the role they had previously, to take that into the new role, to help them understand that they are, you know, know there's a reason they are where they are that they have to and they have to sort of appreciate the skill set they've got and how they're going to utilize that to help them with the role they've got. There's never really two clients are the same, because they always bring their own set of things that go in on their life, because everyone's got stuff in their life as well, and I'm you know, I'm not a counselor, but you're trying to help them make sure they're putting things in place that balance their life so that they can then be more effective in what they're trying to do.
Speaker 1:So what's next for Danny? What projects are on the horizon? What have we got to look forward to?
Speaker 2:So for me it's. We just finished the Paris game, so hopefully we will be seeing more and more disability sport on television. So I'll be helping trying to drive that. Any memorable stories from Paris I mean I was predominantly track so I watched the track, but I mean it was a really exciting Games. I mean, as much as it pains you to say it, the French did a really good job. We always thought London was the best Games ever. I still think it was, but the French did a really good job. We saw some amazing performances on the track and para-athletes really stepping up.
Speaker 2:But you go to the flip side as well, right, you see the athletes that failed to deliver their expectations for various reasons, and that is sport and that's the brutal side of sport, but it's all part of sport. We saw a Cuban athlete take an 11th Paralympic gold medal Phenomenal athlete. We've been raving about it for years. We saw one of our Britishish athletes, sammy kinghorn, take five medals on the track. You know really come of age at these games. So when you see an athlete you've been following, like you've been tracking because you've been working and commentating on them for many years, and you suddenly see them come of age at games and they're there, they've done it. So a young athlete on the track, one of ours, a young lad with learning difficulties, just run the most tactically brilliant race Like I've never seen a race like it and oh, I was.
Speaker 2:There was one in the Olympics. Josh Kerr and Inga Britsen had exactly the same race Like eyeballs, courageous, brave running, and he won the race. And then we watched him and it was one of those races when all the athletes collapsed over the finish line. They were just like it was like a war zone. They were just like it was like it was like a war zone. They were just laid all over the track in pieces and this young brit athlete who just won went around helping them all up, like he, just before he went and celebrated, before he went and grabbed a union jack to start his lap of honor, the first thing he did was went and put a hand out to each and every athlete on the track and lifted them up.
Speaker 2:You just think you see those, you see those stories and um, and when you're in amongst it it just warms your heart. And then the crowd when you hear 80 000 people screaming for an athlete. It just it's what sport is about, and it's seeing paralympic sport do that now. We saw it in london 2012. Obviously, tokyo, we couldn't, rio couldn't match london, paris did so. It's showing that paralympic sport is at that level. Those are the memories for me.
Speaker 1:I interrupted you telling us what was next.
Speaker 2:Oh yeah, sorry. So next is so for me, I'm always building my performance brand 1404. Performance is my brand. It was my race number. The reason I kept my race number as my brand, because four was my lucky number. So when I raced in Athens, I had 1404 was my number, I number. So when I raced in athens, I had 1404 was my number. I was in lane for well, this is going to be a good games. So, um, 1404 is my brand and that is so the keynote side of it. But I also, for me it's working with more businesses, helping them create that that high performance mindset within their team, because I I love doing it, I love seeing results.
Speaker 2:I had a coaching client phone me a few weeks ago that I'm working with and he said look, you worked with one of my colleagues and he said can you do the same for me? And then when you get those kind of phone calls, you go I'm making a difference. People still come up to me that saw me speak 15 years ago and they say I still use that thing. You showed me that thing, you told me I use it. And I tell all my team now what you showed me, that thing, you told me. I use it and I tell all my team now what you showed me that 1% or those five pillars or whatever else I'd done in the presentations.
Speaker 2:That is what drives me and drives me and drives me to keep being better and better at what I do. Every keynote I do, I treat it like a race. I always analyze it afterwards and work out what I can improve, what I can do differently, what I can do better. I get the buzz from it. You know I'm always slightly competitive. I want to know who they had last year. Was I better than one last year? Hopefully I'll be better than one next year. It's that competitive side is still in there and that's what drives me.
Speaker 1:Well, listen, danny, it's been an absolute pleasure having you here. Mate. Loved hearing the story. You know so many different directions and so much to learn from Bob. I want to ask you when we first started talking, you told me that you wouldn't change the accident and you wouldn't ask for the arm back, because it's defined who you are now and I guess it's been a real thrive. In the face of adversity, I always feel that I only learn from the things that have gone wrong, not the things that have gone right. So if you had to look back, what would your biggest mistake have been, or what is one of the things that you've done very badly? That will be a great learning experience for other people to take away.
Speaker 2:So, firstly, pick up what you said. I use that same. We say there's no such thing as failure, only feedback. So I always say I lost more races than I ever won. Sometimes my coach would put me into a race with a race tactic. That would mean I would lose, but I was in there to learn something. So every race I lost I was learning something. If you learn something from a situation, it's not failure anymore. There's actually a win in there. You might not got the result you're looking for, but you can win, you can get something out of it. So it's not a total failure. So there's always something to learn. But in terms of the advice or the only thing I would change differently I would have had travel insurance because I'd still have one arm, but I'd just have had a few more quid in my pocket.
Speaker 1:Listen, buddy. Thank you very much, love talking to you and I hope we can do it again sometime soon. Pleasure, thank you. Hey, matt here. Thanks for listening to Stripping Off with Matt Haycox, but did you also know I've got another podcast, no Bollocks, with Matt Haycox? Both of these are very different. If you're enjoying the deep dives with the guests that I have every week on Stripping Off, then you're going to love the quick, short business tips, strategies and tactics I give you on no Bollocks. This comes out nearly every day. Make sure you go and check it out on iTunes, spotify, youtube, wherever you listen to your content, and I'll see you in a
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