Stripping Off with Matt Haycox
Welcome to 'Stripping Off with Matt Haycox,' where we bare it all on business, money, and life. Get ready to peel back the layers of success with entrepreneur, investor, funding expert, and mentor with over 20 years of experience building and growing businesses, Matt Haycox.
Tune into steamy conversations with industry titans, celebrities, and successful entrepreneurs as they strip down their stories of triumphs, setbacks, and the raw realities of their journey to the top. Matt is going down on business, money, and life, and will take DMCs to new heights!
Stripping Off with Matt Haycox
Fear Is Fuel — Ant Middleton on Building Unbreakable Mental Strength
Tell us what you like or dislike about this episode!! Be honest, we don't bite!
Former Special Forces soldier Ant Middleton reveals the brutal truth about what it takes to find your purpose and build real mental resilience.
He opens up about surviving war, prison, and K2, and why fear is the most powerful tool you have if you learn to use it.
You’ll learn:
- How to turn fear into fuel for growth.
- Why comfort is the enemy of progress.
- How discipline beats motivation every time.
- What Ant learned from war zones, prison and TV fame.
- Why society is getting soft, and how to toughen your mind.
Resources Mentioned
First Man In 👉 https://amzn.eu/d/4t9zhNS
The Fear Bubble 👉 https://amzn.eu/d/2CnLpsu
📲 Follow Ant Middleton
Instagram 👉 https://www.instagram.com/antmiddleton/
X 👉 https://x.com/antmiddleton
Timestamps:
00:00 Intro & Trailer
01:30 Childhood & Upbringing
05:10 Joining the Military at 16
09:00 Adjusting to Combat Life
17:00 Toughest Training & Discipline
22:00 Fear Under Fire
27:00 Special Forces & Leadership
43:00 Woke Society & Mental Strength
50:00 Prison & Rebuilding
1:07:00 Addiction & Growth
1:30:00 K2 & Facing Death
1:42:00 Why He Hates Wokeness
1:52:00 Money & Success
Keywords: Ant Middleton, fear is fuel, mental strength, SAS soldier, leadership, discipline, resilience, entrepreneurship, self-improvement, No Bollocks Podcast.
Listen weekly on Stripping Off with Matt Haycox
📲 Follow on IG: /www.instagram.com/strippingoffwithmatthaycox
💼 Connect on TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@thematthaycox
🎥 Watch full episodes on YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@strippingoffpodcast
If you think you've got the right to take someone else's life, I will simply deny you that right by taking your life, hey guys now, this is a one-off episode because in just a few days, I am heading to Everest Base Camp with my once podcast guest and now good mate, mr Ant Middleton. Now, if you've been following me for a while, you'll know that I am always up for a challenge. I've climbed Kilimanjaro and I've done some mad things in business and life too, but this one, it hits different. You, I've done some mad things in business and life too, but this one, it hits different. You know, everest Base Camp has been on my bucket list for years and when Ant invited me to join his team for this expedition, I couldn't say no. I mean, how do you say no to Ant Middleton and the Himalayas? This is going to be a true test of mindset, physical grit and mental resilience, and I'll be documenting as much of it as I can along the way. We're talking vlogs, behind-the-scenes content and a full podcast breakdown once I'm back and all thawed out. So if you're into pushing your limits, getting outside your comfort zone and watching someone suffer for your entertainment, then make sure you're following the journey on my socials, on the no Bollocks, instagram, linkedin, youtube. I'll be sharing it all, well, signal permitting.
Speaker 2:So to mark the occasion, I wanted to bring back one of my favourite episodes with the man himself. So Ant Middleton's known for pushing people to their breaking point and beyond, and in this episode we dive into the brutal SAS selection process. Fear is fuel, surviving war, addiction, prison and climbing K2 because he's done it all. But what I love most about Ant is how he applies all of that to real life, business, leadership and mindset. This is not just about being tough. It's about building mental strength that carries through every area of your life, something I'm going to be needing plenty of over the next few weeks. So hit, play, get inspired and follow the madness as I take on everest with the real life action man himself. Let's go get it.
Speaker 2:Today we've got a guest I am very, very much looking forward to. He's an writer, he's a TV personality and a former UK Special Forces soldier, ant Middleton. Welcome to the show. Thanks for having me, mate. Thank you, thanks for being here. So so much we can talk about, so many different roads we can go down, but let's set the scene by starting at the beginning, really, and I guess, tell me about your childhood and, you know, go back as far as you can remember. Oh yesterday.
Speaker 1:No, I was brought up in France. Not a lot of people know that, but I moved to France when I was nine years old. Before that I was, I lived in Portsmouth. I was born in Portsmouth, raised in Portsmouth, and at the age of nine, my stepdad and my mum moved to France to start up a business out there.
Speaker 2:What age did you get the stepdad?
Speaker 1:Age of five. My father passed away when I was five and my stepdad replaced him more or less straight away.
Speaker 2:Do you remember your biological dad much.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I do Not as much as I like I would like, but I do remember him. So he's still a vivid memory in my head, like, but I do remember him. So he's still a vivid memory in my in my head, um, but due to my stepdad taking the role of a father more or less straight away, um, he was sort of forgotten. He was, you know, pushed out. We weren't allowed to talk about him, we weren't allowed to, you know, mention his name. It was, you know, the stepdad was dad straight away. So it was. It was almost sort of squashed out of our life straight away. So, not that I wanted to forget about him, but I was almost forced to forget about him who's doing was that?
Speaker 2:was that your mom or your stepdad?
Speaker 1:both, yeah, they're both. Um, obviously before my father passed. It doesn't take the brains of an archbishop to realize what was going on behind the scenes, because the way they got together straight away, um, so that was at the time. You know, you're five years old, you squash a lot of that out your memory. Um, so, raised, especially growing up, moving from the UK to France, it was almost distancing exercise, even more so, you know, the vivid memory of my father almost became a forgotten memory. Then, from the ages of nine till 16, I was brought up in France, in rural France, so with the cows, with farmers, you know, really just had a lot of land to play on French speaking school.
Speaker 1:French speaking school. So I speak fluent French. Did you before you got there? No, didn't speak a word. Did you before you got there? No, didn't speak a word of friend of french before I got there. Um, and I was just chucked straight into a catholic school because we come from a catholic background and I was chucked straight into a catholic school. So I picked the language up within three months. You know, kids are very, very adaptable. Within three months I was holding perfectly good conversations. They're starting to pick up the accent, start to pick up the vocabulary masculine and feminine. There's a sort of a vocabulary where it's le and la. You know just, each word is either masculine or feminine. They'd have troubles in the UK right now.
Speaker 2:I was about to say we're going to have to make a new language.
Speaker 1:So yeah, it was a normal childhood, I'd say. You know, we went from getting a lot of having a lot of money when my father passed away due to his insurance payout, to having, you know, two, three years later, moving to France and living in caravans.
Speaker 2:Because your mum and stepfather had lost it all. Yeah, basically.
Speaker 1:So then we went back to, like I said, moving to France, living in caravans and just sort of rebuilding our or their lives from there. And at the age of 16, I just had enough, you know. I just thought to myself do you know what? I want to stand on my own two feet, I want to be self-sufficient and I decided to join the army.
Speaker 2:And in those kind of previous 16 years, I mean, were you an outdoorsy person, were you an aggressive?
Speaker 1:person. No, no, not an aggressive person, especially growing up in france. Um, you know, it's different culture. You know, when I was 13, 14, 15, I was in bowling alleys drinking coffee. You know, not like the UK culture where you're at the park and going to parties and starting to experience with alcohol and cigarettes. And when you're, you know, 13, 12, 13, 14, 15, it was completely different. So no, I was a very, I was a very active child, very hyperactive child. I needed a room, I needed a space because I was outdoors all the time. I never sat in my room. I never wasn't a playstation geek. I wasn't, you know, I didn't wasn't into my video games. I was just into going out, playing in the forest, building bows and arrows, dens, you know, sleeping um in the forest at weekends with friends. So, so we had the freedom and the liberty to be kids, which was great, but we were very, very sheltered, and that became apparent when I decided to not only join the British Army but move from France to England.
Speaker 2:And at that point, like you know, 16, leaving to the UK. How was your relationship with your mum and stepdad? It was good, it was, you know, so it wasn't the UK. How was your relationship with your mum and stepdad? It was good, it was you know, so it wasn't an issue then that they wanted to suppress you? No, not really.
Speaker 1:I mean, there was no violence or anything like that, yeah, my stepfather was a violent man, but no more than back in the 80s, 90s, getting a good hiding. You know, sometimes a bit more than that, but it was the norm back then. You know it was, yeah, you know I was petrified, we were petrified of our stepdad. You know we wouldn't, we wouldn't say a word out of place very respectful kids, um, but it was just, it was just normal, wasn't it? You got a good hiding, you got the wooden spoon, you got a belt, you know all those good things. So it wasn't, you know it's not. Ah, I look back and think, oh, you know, I was bullied, or better, we had a violent upbringing. It was just, it was just normal.
Speaker 1:I was a happy kid, um, and, yeah, I just wanted to get away from one France, because it was. It's good to grow up and grow old. You know, when you start to find your own feet, you want a bit more excitement in your life. Um, I wanted to break away from the family, not due to any mishaps that we've had or any sort of clashes, but I just wanted to get out into the big wide world and be free, basically because we were isolated, we were sort of closed off to the world. So the jump that I made was just. It just blew my mind.
Speaker 2:And how did you join the army? You just write them a letter or sign a form or something.
Speaker 1:So when I was over in Portsmouth because we still had grandparents in Portsmouth. I'd go and visit them. And then I went to visit them one of the school holidays. I went down the careers office and just signed up. I said I don't know, you need one of your parents here to do that. So I went back and told my mum and she brought me over and she was happy with it. Yeah, sign me up away, you go. So I joined the royal engineers um at the age of 16 and 10 months and then went on to do P Company and became part of nine parachute squadron Royal Engineers of five airborne brigade and you can imagine it was. I went from a sort of quite chilled, relaxed culture to a male dominant sort of UK vibe. You know drinking, fighting, you know that sort of dog-eat-dog world. So it was a huge culture shock for me when I joined the army and my first I would say three, four years I didn't really enjoy it it was trying to find my feet.
Speaker 2:It was a hard adjustment for you.
Speaker 1:Yeah, huge adjustment for me and I suppose I isolated myself. I sort of took myself out of the pack. And in the military you must be part of the pack, you must conform, you must be one of the lads. And I've always been my own person. Even if you look at things now, what I do in the military and when I've left the military and what I do with my TV stuff, I'm always doing it not by myself, but I always do my own thing. So it was hard to sort of balance the two, between being part of the lads and going out every weekend on the piss, you know, getting into fights, and living that sort of British military culture which it was very much back then in the mid-90s, late 90s, to just trying to find myself, you know, this quiet, relaxed sort of gently spoken boy. Really that's what I was when I joined the army.
Speaker 2:Did you ever think you'd made the wrong decision?
Speaker 1:Yeah, all the time, yeah, I thought what the hell have I done? How long you started, was it like three, said like three years before, yeah, you got three years. So I, I ended up leaving after five years. So I done four years, put my notice in and and left. Um, but it, to be fair, was it wasn't for me, the army wasn't for me it was just when you left.
Speaker 2:You joined the marines yeah, that's right. And was that wildly different as in? Why was that going to be different More?
Speaker 1:mature. The Marines is harder, more mature. Once you get your Green Beret, you're part of a small gang of 2,500, 3,000. But when you join the Army, you're part of a gang of 150,000 to 200,000.
Speaker 2:What are the? I mean, I don't really know much about it. I'm sure it's the same for a lot of my listeners. I mean, what's the difference in the job you do, as in like what are the army sent out to do versus what are the marines sent out to do?
Speaker 1:So it depends what you're in. The marines are sort of an elite fighting force. They can operate in any environment. So from the desert to the arctic, to the jungle to to mountainous terrain, the marines are classed. That's why they're classed as an elite fighting force, because they can do that.
Speaker 1:The army, they sort of pick and choose, they um sort of uh train to to operate in certain areas. They're not an all-rounder as such. You. That's why the Army's so big, because you've got your drivers, you've got your engineers, you've got your infantry. The Parachute Regiment are the elite of the Army. They go out and they're a frontline fighting force, a conventional fighting force. So I would say that if you've got your wings and your maroon beret, which I had, you're very well respected within that organisation. So I sort of bounced from the paras, if you wish, to the Marines. I got my maroon beret, my parachute wings, and then I thought do you know what? When I left, I missed the military. I left and I'd done a stint in Civvy Street and I missed the military and I thought to myself do you know what? I'm going to go and join a different organisation.
Speaker 2:That's when I decided to join the marines at the age of 23. 24 and you talk about obviously the army's got drivers and engineers and stuff. So because you haven't got them in the marines, do you borrow the ones from the army?
Speaker 1:no, you do have it. You do have in the marines, you do have your, your drivers and your chefs and stuff like that. But everyone's gone through the same 32 weeks of basic training. It's it's the hardest basic training in the world infantry and the longest basic training in the world. So once you've done that, you've got your green beret, first and foremost you are a fighting operator. That's who you are.
Speaker 1:Then, ultimately, you go on and if you want to get all your driving licenses, you know. If you want to go off and you know be, you know if you want to go off and you know be a chef, you can do that in those departments. Or you might get pinged for it. If you've fucked up in the Marines, they might go right. You're going on a fucking chef's course and you're going to do. You know you're going to work in the cookhouse for the next two years. Steven Seagal in Under Siege, isn't it? But so a lot of people got it's called ping. They got ping for these shit details, as we called them. But ultimately you will always end up back in a fighting company.
Speaker 2:So tell me about that basic training. So 32 weeks, 32 weeks, and how many people apply and how many don't make?
Speaker 1:it through the 32 weeks. So in the Marines I would say, you know, in my original troop there was probably about 40 members and I think 13 of us, or 12 of us, were originals that passed the 32 weeks. So what you get if you don't pass certain stages of the course, then you get back troops. It's called you go back a troop, so there's a new troop every two weeks. So you can imagine, you know we've got loads of back troopers Should you go back to day one?
Speaker 1:no, it depends. So say, you've passed the first phase, which is four weeks, then you, you found the second phase, then you go back to week four. So you, you, you get back troops, you go back into a troop. That's starting then. So you know, for example, when I passed out, you know there's people still in week 12, still in week 8. You know that that started with me, they're still in week 18 or whatever it may be. So 13 of us, or 12 of us, got to to the end as originals, as originals from the, from the troop. So we spent the minimum amount of time there, which was 32 weeks, and, um, we all passed out together. What's's Hell Week Is that? What it's called Hell Week is an American thing. Hell Week is I think it's for the BUDS training.
Speaker 2:Oh, okay, the Navy SEALs.
Speaker 1:Yeah, Hell Week is.
Speaker 2:Do we have a UK equivalent?
Speaker 1:Week is easy. I could do a week with my eyes closed. So you know when I hear Hell Week, hell Month, eyes closed, right um. So you know when I hear hell week, hell months, hell years, you know selection is six months long. Um p company is is 26 weeks. Um, when you go down depot um the war marines is 32 weeks. You know to do a week of training and then to to go on to continuation training.
Speaker 2:It's like what are some of the toughest challenges you had to do in that basic training?
Speaker 1:My toughest moments in the military were my pre-para training for 9th Parachute Squadron. It was run in a very old-fashioned type of way. I'd finished training, I passed out of Phase 1 and Phase 2 of training, went straight to 9th Parachute Squadron, royal Engineers, where they do pre-para, you know. So they prepare you to see if you're good enough to go on to p company and complete the p company course, which is the para course, become a para trained or or or para para trooper. So when I tipped up the, the shock of the level of fitness and the mentality required um to get into nine parish squadron Royal Engineers, um was extremely high. You know they'd only send two or three people per P company and those two or three people passed. You know they'd done the Royal Engineers proud, basically.
Speaker 1:And that training, that pre-power training, was just run by two lance corporals. You know one pti corporal and one other lance corporal you know who were just, you know just wanted to thrash the living daylights out. You and I'm talking from the moment you woke up to the moment you went to bed. So the pre-power for me was a big shock, um, but it prepared me from, I would say from later down the line for the Royal Marines and then United Kingdom Special Forces Selection. But that was a moment that I was a young, 17, 18-year-old and that was a fucking shock to my system, but one that I look back on and I embrace because it prepared me for a lot, you know, in the military.
Speaker 2:You know, when you've got these corporals, like you know, thrashing the shit out of you, as you say? I mean, are they, can you see that they're doing it for your own good, or do you? No, they weren't doing it for your own good. My next part of the question was going to be are they getting off on the fact that they get to abuse these people? It's not like. This is tough love at work, and at nine o'clock at night, you all go for a cup of tea together.
Speaker 1:No, you don't talk to these instructors Once you go up onto the actual peer company course and you go and you get handed over to the PowerEdge instructors, then you know, you go back to your unit. You rarely speak to the guys that took you through pre-Power because there's that element of you know you weren't worthy or you know it's like you knew that they were just being fuckers just for the sake of really thrashing the living day. But they got the fittest and they got you know, they sort of brainwash you within that process as well to be welcomed as part of the squadron. So it's a mental and a physical game, but it's a huge change and a huge shock to the system.
Speaker 2:And, I guess, the training you to see action, of which you must have seen plenty of time. I know you were deployed in Afghanistan in 2007. I mean, whether we talk about that or some other bits, I mean, what's it like in these life and death situations? I mean, can you talk us through some of the most horrendous days there?
Speaker 1:When I was in the army, there wasn't anything going on. There was a big gap between the Falklands and the evasion of Iraq in 2003.
Speaker 2:And during that time then, if there's nothing going on, you just keep training. You're playing soldiers.
Speaker 1:Basically You're on exercise or you know you're on course or you're doing a trade or whatever it may be. But when I joined the army there was nothing going on. So, I call, there was a lot of pub soldiers, there were a lot of camp soldiers that you know would go out on exercise and think they were brilliant because they're, you know, going around around playing soldiers. And when I look back on it, I wasn't interested in that bit. You know, unless it was real for me, I wasn't really interested in it. So I could have done a lot more, could have worked a lot harder, but, um, yeah, it didn't really interest me to play soldiers.
Speaker 1:I've never been one to to to play or to mimic. I've always wanted to do it for real. So when I left the army, um, about a year later, iraq kicked off. So that was one of the main reasons why I rejoined back up to join the marines. And then, when I joined the marines, um, I passed out training, went straight to 40 commando and then went more or less went straight to afghanistan in 2007.
Speaker 2:when you were going out there. Were you going there with a specific mission in place, or yeah?
Speaker 1:When you go out there with the Marines and the paras, you go out there as an elite conventional fighting force. Now, conventional fighting forces is not task force stuff, you know, it's stuff where you go and occupy some ground, keep hold of that ground, hearts and minds, make sure the taliban aren't coming back in or the enemy aren't coming back into that area trying to take it over. And then slowly, you, you go, and you, you, you gain more and more ground. Then the next, the next rotation that comes in, they hold that ground and they might gain a little bit more ground over that then. And then you start building infrastructure within that sort of area, within that area that you've secured. So it was. There were long days, there were 14-hour patrols. You know, if we did get into contact it would be firefights, it would be from 200 metres away.
Speaker 2:Is it normally that it's not often that you go in hand-to-hand with someone?
Speaker 1:Not as a conventional force, no, 100% not. You might have done one day like that, but when I was in the Special Force I was doing that every single day. Nighttime operations, tier one operations are completely different. I'll go into that in a bit. But you know, as a Marine I was a bit disheartened with my first tour, because not that you want to get into a scrap not enough killing for you, but it's, it's like no it's not that, it's it's.
Speaker 1:You know you wanted more of a responsibility. You know we weren't allowed to go out at night. You know there's only only tier one operators allowed to go out at night. So when you're when you're out, you know when you're in the fob forward operational base in the day and you're hearing helicopters going off off and over over you and you're seeing, you know special forces operators come onto the camp because they they're the only ones that you know, you think to yourself I want to be that guy there. Um, and you know I hate to say it, but you know conventional forces out in afghanistan was just ied central. You were just patrolling around waiting to get blown up.
Speaker 2:What does?
Speaker 1:IED stand for again Improvised Explosive Device. So they'd make improvised explosive devices and either telephone connection or pressure pad, whatever it may be Trigger or whatever, yeah, exactly trigger.
Speaker 2:I mean, are you waking up every day thinking today could be my last day? I know people that were. I wasn't because you didn't want to put yourself in that mindset no, yeah, I wouldn't put myself in that headspace.
Speaker 1:You know, when I went on to operations, I never put myself in that headspace. I never, ever thought about worst case scenario. I always believed that I'd be coming back off that patrol, always believed that you know, if we did get into a firefight, that you know we'd be okay. I never allowed that to creep in, because I've seen it creep into people's heads and I've seen it take them out. You know, um, I had a very good power in the special forces and he was just. It was when he, when he passed, it was almost. It was when he, when he passed, it was almost, you know, waiting to happen, because, not, he's manifested himself, I'm not saying that, but it was almost a a series of events and he died on duty and he passed away on duty.
Speaker 1:And I won't mention any names, but I'm just saying that that is a that is a mindset as well.
Speaker 1:It's a huge mindset thing and I and I've seen Marines and grown soldiers from the Army, you know, waking up and being in tears because it's their job to minesweep out the base. You know they have to clear the area and minesweep before, you know, because obviously at night, even though they've got sentry positions all over, the enemy will come and dig in IEDs and, knowing that you've only got two free patrol routes that you're going to use, you come out, boom and then clack them off. So yeah, when I was in the Special Forces and I went on to these fobs at night, I've chatted to young men that were just in tears because their mate got blown up that day in front of him and he's like tomorrow is my time to minesweep. And I'm just like, listen, don't take it personally, it is what it is. And these are young 18, 19, 20 year olds who are having to go out and and do this I'm trying to understand the job of mine sweep.
Speaker 2:I mean, if you're on mine sweeping duty and you find a mine, it's guaranteed you're getting blown up.
Speaker 1:No well, if you're on mine suite, it's in front of you, okay, it's like. It's like you're getting blown up. No Well, if you're on mine suite, it's in front of you, okay, it's like a metal detector, if you wish.
Speaker 2:How far ahead of you?
Speaker 1:is it Probably a metre, metre and a half, but that doesn't sound very far no, but it's one of those as well where if it's operated via IR or via a signal, then you're fucked, okay, you're going to get blown up. But a signal, then you, you're okay, you're gonna get blown up. But if it's trigger based, um, then you're hopefully gonna catch it before it does, or they might. It might be there and it might be for for another time and the signal's not working or the the the signals are working between the yeah, the yeah, transmitter and receiver, so it's a.
Speaker 1:it's a huge game of Russian roulette. And after that tour, the first tour, I'd say I was fortunate enough. But I went straight on selection United Kingdom Special Forces selection and passed. What does that mean? I went on to become a Special Forces operator. So United Kingdom Special Forces selection is selection for the SAS and SBS Special Air Service, which is the Army Special Forces, and the Special Boat Service, which is the Navy Special Forces. Selection is selection for the SAS and SBS Special Air Service, which is the Army Special Forces, and the Special Boat Service, which is the Navy Special Forces.
Speaker 1:So, this is like another level up from the Another. Yeah, this is. I thought it was when I was in the Marines. I thought it was the next level up, but it's a whole different world. Say, for example, you're a sergeant in the Marines and I'm a lance Corporal in the Marines. I pass the selection process before you. I'm then senior to you. Okay, because your rank gets stripped right back down to trooper, because it's such a different organization. You're working with CIA, mi5, mi6, all these different intelligence agencies, all these different secret services, and you're basically gathering intel and putting a package together to go out and take out or or arrest hvt's high value targets that come in over the border, re reassess their troops and then nip back over um where they think they can't be touched. So our job is to identify where they are and to go in and arrest them. It's called hard arrest. It's to go in and detain them, because if you can get information out of them it's even better. But these HVTs are heavily guarded. They've only got 15, 20 bodyguards around them.
Speaker 2:You're getting into a fucking scrap. What would an HVT be Like a politician or an army?
Speaker 1:No, hvt, for example, will be and I talk about one because it's quite personal to me would be an IED facilitator, someone who's building the bombs, so someone who is, you know, really savvy, got all the technical knowledge, all the technical equipment, and will come over and resupply their troops and teach them how to do it all and then go back over, um a certain border again, I won't mention any borders, but the one that borders afghanistan is quite obvious um. So, as soon as we, as soon as there's a series of id attacks nine times out of ten, we know hvt is, is, is close, is in town because all of a sudden, you know willpower bombs are going off, um ids are going off. You know there's patrols are being hit in a space of 24 hours. You know two, three, four patrols. We know like the id facilitators must be in town.
Speaker 1:We whack up all the equipment that we need to do to track this, this person, down, either by phone signal and again, I can't go into the details of it on how we do it, but once we've got that information and we get the green light from the boss, then we, we, we have our own assets. Everyone mounts up and we go after. What we do is we cut the head off the snake and it has uh, probably quite literally, yeah literally has such a positive um effect?
Speaker 1:because one of the tours that I was on I've done three tours in total, two with the special effect because one of the tours that I was on I've done three tours in total, two with the Special Forces One of the tours that I'd done we took out about three HVTs. So let's say it was an IED facilitator. So you've got an IED facilitator, you might have a weapons arm facilitator, you might have a training camp facilitator, you've got all these different HVTs as part of the network and when you focus on one. So we took out I think it was a weapons facilitator and someone stepped into his shoes about two, three weeks later and instead of focusing on the other network, we just focused on that person. Then we took out that person within. It took about three or four months before anyone stood into to that person's shoes and then we took them out as well. And it was a couple of years before anyone, any, any major weapons came across the border. So same with IEDs. You know we'd focus on the IED facilitator. Someone would have to step into his shoes and there was a period when we were really hitting the, the hvt for the ids, that there wasn't there was a dry patch of id, explosions in the helm and providence for about two years. You wouldn't. You didn't never heard of an id strike because we're just cutting the head off the snake all the time someone went. I'm not treading into stepping into issues because I'm a dead man, you know so. You're always playing catch up and you're always trying to stay one step ahead of the enemy or realize, with modern day warfare it's just more than one way to skin a cat.
Speaker 1:The psychological warfare alone and the techniques that we use to eradicate the enemy are second to none. You know you would, sometimes you did well. Most of the time you don't even need to press the trigger. You know it's using their own technology against them, using their own system against them, using their own people against them. Um, and it's really it is. People talk about psychological warfare. You know we can go in all day long, kick doors down and take our HVTs. I can do that with my eyes closed. Done it for two complete tours. But the psychological warfare behind collecting intelligence, the psychological warfare about getting one up on the enemy, you know it differs from hearts and minds to, you know, really infiltrating and penetrating their network.
Speaker 2:And tell me I know you said that you would never wake up thinking today was my last day. You're always waking up and going into it with a positive mindset that you're going to get out, but is there any particular days you know, I guess, particular circumstances, horrendous situations that you're involved in where you think, where it was very touch and go and you're thinking, you know, yeah all the time, every mission you went on, you know it was.
Speaker 1:You know, when you're kicking doors down with night vision goggles on and, uh, you know you're going off of an intelligence packet that has been, you know, made up from what you've seen on the exterior, you know, you just have to roll with the punches. You literally just you know, you have a plan and you adapt that plan as you go. If you you know if it goes to shit which nine times out of ten it does then your training kicks in. Communication is absolutely key and keeping momentum is is one of the the best ways to to facilitate mission success. If you can be fluid and keep the momentum going within your drills and skills and the communication between you not verbal, just touches and where you go, then then you will move as a slick and I mean a very slick moving machine, and it's fascinating to watch. It's almost, it's almost therapeutical, the way we move, the way we cross each other, the way we cross each other's on the doors, the way we stack up, the way we enter the room differently, and it's but all the time, but our risk assessment, because we do it so much and we repeat that process, we get used to it.
Speaker 1:So I used to go into combat and I used to use adrenaline to get me through the door. I'd be at the door and I'd wait. You know I'd wait either for a pauseable weapon, I'd wait for the moment, you know, and then I'd breach the door. The way I'd move, I'd make sure I'd always, nine times out of ten, have the drop on the person. And also, if you think to it and I used to think to myself, what's the chance of them getting a drop on me? Not really, If they do fire one or two.
Speaker 1:They don't know you're coming yeah, they do. But the natural instinct when you're the hunter, the natural instinct is, if someone's waiting behind the door, I'm still very confident in the way that I move and the way that I know that I'll get the drop on you. I'll wait for that split second or that split millisecond, because you'll naturally try and make a decision fight or flight, you'll naturally you'll have that moment, that millisecond of making that decision, because that's what it takes, and during that millisecond I would have made a decision and and and got the drop on you and what I mean by that is you know, the calculations in my head is well, I've got the psychological advantage because I'm after you.
Speaker 1:You know, I've come knocking your door, so now you're on the back foot straight away. That's psychological advantage. Two, if they're firing their weapon on automatic through the door, then I know that they're shitting themselves, because we never fire on automatic. Every round that we shoot counts. So one, you're wasting ammunition. Two, if you're firing that weapon on automatic, the weapon will naturally erase. You have automatic, the weapon will naturally erase. You have to at some point take your finger off and take charge of that weapon again. So again, I'll wait for that pause. I see the shards come out the door. I see the. I think, right, there's gonna be a natural pause in that weapon. That's my time to go. That pause will happen. Bang, I'm through that door. I pre-empted it. You know I've been there, so that would be adrenaline that got me through the door. But because I've done it it so many times, I've been at that door so many times, kicked that door down so many times, you know, met an empty room, a full room, enemy fighters on the other side, it became. I got so used to harnessing that emotion of fear that it became therapeutic. You know, that moment of me going through that door was it went from the adrenaline doing it the first couple of tours to the last tour just being I was looking forward to that, that euphoria, because it's, that's the only way I can explain it because it went. It was so peaceful, because during that moment life was so uncompl. If I took a step to the left I was going to die. If I took a step to the right, I was going to live. There's no bullshit, there's no complications in life, it's life at its purest form, and rarely do you walk that line. But when you walk it, all the time you harness that emotion, you make it work for you. So I went from that moment and I knew exactly how I was going to move, I knew exactly where I was going to go, I knew exactly how I was going to feel, to the point where it got, to a point where I was chasing. I wasn't chasing adrenaline, I was chasing that euphoria.
Speaker 1:You know, I say to people I try and put it, put it into layman's terms for people who, who, who don't understand it. You know, when you get your poets from world war one and World War II that wrote the most beautiful poems in their trenches and they've got fucking trench foot. They're getting shelled. It's because they're at their ultimate peace. Nothing matters, it's life at its purest form. There's no fucking political bullshit. You're in a fucking trench, you're at the door, you make one wrong move, you're dead. You're not going to know about it and if you live to fight another day, then woohoo, you get used to that feeling. So when those poems and it wasn't until I went through that and I started feeling that I thought I understand how they wrote these.
Speaker 1:You know, I read these poems sometimes and I think I mean I know what that guy was going through. He was just there, probably being shelled to fuck, you know, just waiting for one to drop in his head, but he was just like I'm at peace and that. That. That, that was a feeling that I chased time and time and time again. Um, and it was, uh, it's addictive. You know, it's not adrenaline. It's not adrenaline for me, it wasn't. It might be for some people, but it's. It was that that I chased and um, yes, it's a feeling that I miss every day, but I count my lucky stars.
Speaker 2:How did it feel? Or how did you feel about killing people? You know, I mean, do you ever think about it after you've done it? Because I mean, I guess, yes, yes, it's the enemy, you know, yes, it's the army. But I mean, ultimately, they probably say the same about us that we say about them, and it's still somebody's son, somebody's father. Do you know what?
Speaker 1:I've never been a bully with a weapon Never and I despise people that are, Because it's easy to shoot someone in the back. It's easy to shoot someone when you know they're not armed. So, first and foremost, I've always been a good man with a weapon in my hand and in charge of that weapon.
Speaker 2:What does that mean? Exactly?
Speaker 1:in charge of the way?
Speaker 2:no no, it being a good man with a weapon as in there wasn't.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it was them or me. You know, I believe that no one has the god-given right to take life. I genuinely believe that. Okay, I have. I haven't got the god-given right to take any life. However, if you think you've got the right to take someone else's life, I will simply deny you that right by taking your life, therefore saving a life. So when people say to me, how did you deal with killing? I was like I was saving lives and I'd only take that shot if you thought you had the right to either take my life or my pal's life. If you didn't, if you put the weapon down probably had every reason to shoot you you would literally just let people go.
Speaker 1:No, just arrest them. We'd call it arrest them, we would bring them in and we'd question them.
Speaker 2:Okay, you're not letting them turn around and pop back over the border. No, but some of them.
Speaker 1:You would, you know, if you were after HVTs. I knew the bodyguard that was there. There was, you know, when the action starts to kick off, that person doesn't want to be there. It might sound all glamorous that you're looking after a HVT and you're the body, but when you're quivering in your boots and I can see you they're shaking and your weapon's there and you can't even control your weapon, I'm going to take you to the ground. I'm going to control your weapon. I'm just gonna. I'm gonna take you to the ground. I'm gonna take your weapon off you. We're gonna, we're gonna, you know, plastic off you. We're gonna clear the whole compound once I'm happy that we've got the hvt, then the rest of you can go. I don't, I don't, I've got no interest in you, I've got nothing. You know, I'll question you on the spot, try and get as much information, but if you're running from a you know, know, and you're not the HVT, run for your fucking life because, guess what, you're lucky that you've come across a good guy, because anyone else would take you out.
Speaker 1:So that's how I can always live with it. I can always live with my decisions that I've made because I know, deep down, I've never been a bully with a weapon and, like I said, I've taken a life to save a life. So I've taken a life to save a life. So that's how I processed it in the end, because I thought and I did again. That was just my feeling of processing, being point man. It's like I used to think I've got no right to take life. But if they think they've got the right to take someone else, no, I'll just deny them that right. Therefore saving life. So as long as I went in with that mindset, then ultimately I was always saving life. So as long as I went in with that mindset, then ultimately I was always saving life how?
Speaker 2:how different is the um standard of ability between certain armies? You know, like, like the uk army, for example, versus a taliban? We are by far the best in the world the uk and I mean to put that into layman's terms if it was man man City against, I mean we're talking, you know, like second division, third division.
Speaker 1:You've got Dev Group SEAL, team 6 in America. They're very, very good at CQB, close quarter combat. They specialise in it. Their drills and skills are finely tuned. They're a great fighting force, a great tier one outfit. Delta Force again American tuned. They're a great fighting force. Um, a great tier one outfit. Um delta force again america, america, great fighting uh. Horse. Great tier one outfit. Um new zealand sas great fighting force. Got some good powers in there. Um, the aussies aren't too bad. Um, I would say they're a tier below.
Speaker 1:We will only really work with the Aussies, the Americans and New Zealand. That's special forces. And when it comes to conventional forces, you know Marines and power that work all around Europe, part of NATO, etc. Etc. But you know, when We'd hear you know We'd have the Navy, navy SEALs with us, we always felt good, yeah, and vice versa, anyone else. We always thought that we were probably Babysitting a little bit. But you know, when, looking at, looking at the operations that we went on and being on the ground every single day, conducting multiple, you know hundreds of tier one operations, um, what separates us from the rest is our attention to detail and the discipline um that we have now. We don't have any super duper weapons, any special tech, you know above any other fighting force, but the mindset that we have and the discipline that we have and the attention to detail that we acquire is what separates us from from the best let me hit you with a mad stat.
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Speaker 2:So 2012,? You left Special Forces. What brought that decision about?
Speaker 1:I left the Special Forces because I'd done three tours of Afghanistan, and I'm talking back-to-back tours. At that stage, I had two children. I had a wife. I was 31 or 32. I was young enough to have a second career. There was a lot of red tape being put around Afghanistan. We were pulling out of Afghanistan and it was just a case of right it's time to leave. You know it's time to to leave. You know it's time to to go. And it was a decision that was made quite easy for me because of my, my ways, or non-conformative ways, within the military anyway so were you getting into trouble back then were you, I always get into trouble.
Speaker 1:Um, I was always. But I say trouble, you know, I was always scrapping. I was always, you know, out fighting.
Speaker 1:I was always with other army people civvies, army people, whoever wanted to scrap really at the time, but never, never, go looking for. I've never been a bully, that's one thing I've never been. I've, that's one thing I've never been. I've never. But you know I've always.
Speaker 1:In the military you get taught to deal with aggression with extreme aggression. If someone's aggressive to you on the battlefield, you'd counter it with extreme aggression. So you know that's, that's the way I've been brought up, that's the way that was drilled into me from the military. I'm not blaming the military, you know we all make our own decisions, but that's the way, way of the world. In in the military world violence, violence, we deal with violence, with extreme violence. Someone's violent to me? I counter that with extreme violence.
Speaker 1:Now, there's zero tolerance to violence in civvy street, you know. So it's, it's a hard. It's a hard one to cross because I can no longer go into that code red aggression and I've had to cut violence out my life completely. Well, I used that as a weapon, I used that to keep myself alive. So it was. You know you're trying to balance the two worlds up of having a family and having kids and then of going out and, you know, hunting down hvts. So it's, it's. It's a hard balance to to get white and when you operate at that level of special forces, I believe that you shouldn't have any wife, you shouldn't have any children.
Speaker 2:You just you know, you should just be committed and, and, and you know, for that job, how did your wife feel about you back then, insofar as was he you're saying that you, you, you didn't wake up with fear, you just got on with it. But I mean I, I assume, I assume she woke up with fear, for you?
Speaker 1:no, I don't. I kept her really sheltered from everything um.
Speaker 2:You pretended you're a computer salesman. Yeah, there you go, there, you go um there you go Exactly that.
Speaker 1:No, I just kept her sheltered from it, and what I mean by that is, you know, when I was on operations, you know you'll get a call when I call you. Some people call home every week. My wife would be lucky to get one call a month. You know my priority was the military. You know I love the military, I love the special forces. Um, I volunteer for everything and anything.
Speaker 1:Now, even though I had a family and I was there, you know I wanted to be at the, at the very forefront. I wanted to be the best at what I'd done and I strive to be the best at what I'd done, um, but it was uh, you know there's that, there's that non-conformative side of me, though. I've always done my own thing. I've always done my job to the best of the ability, or best of my ability. I've always got the job done. So there's never been any problems there. But you know, I'd always take charge of my own life, which didn't sit too well in a military organization where you're expected to be 100% military in the zone and off camp, on camp. I had my own life outside of the military, if that makes sense.
Speaker 2:How difficult was it for you to adjust to civilian life when you left the army, I thought it was going to be easy and it wasn't.
Speaker 1:I learned the hard way Because you were bored. Yeah, do you know what I think? So yeah, do you know what I think? So I think, yeah, do you know what? Not bored, but my focus, my identity, my purpose was gone for a bit, and whilst I was trying to figure out that transition, a lot of things went wrong?
Speaker 2:Is there a big ego in it? With the Armies I'm trying to think of like a business equivalent? I mean, I know, you know, let's say, chief execs of big companies, particularly public companies, and when they stop, and then you know they're, let's say, normal person again and they, they don't like it that they haven't got staff running around after them, they don't have a driver anymore. And they check into a hotel and they and the manager doesn't give a fuck who they are anymore, you know, and it almost feels like that kind of adjustment.
Speaker 1:For me, 100%. You've hit the nail on the head, especially when you're in the Marines, when you're all the paras, especially the special forces. You know you've been told your whole career how good you are, how awesome you are. You know, going from a maroon beret to a green beret and into the special forces, the best of the best. You're constantly told how good you are and how you know to maintain, maintain those standards, those level of standards, um. So when you, a lot of soldiers, make this error, especially your, your, your special forces soldiers and your, I'd say your marines, um and powers is they leave thinking that they're someone and you've got to realize pretty quickly that you're no one, that you've got to start. You can take the basics you've learned, but you've got you've got. You've got to realise pretty quickly that you're no one, that you've got to start. You can take the basics that you've learnt, but you've got to now climb down four or five rungs of that ladder.
Speaker 2:And I guess, to make matters worse, not only are you having to adjust to the fact that you're a no one, the people that are not treating you like someone special you probably look at them thinking fucking hell. I used to put my life on the line for your freedom every day, and now you don't even know who the fuck I am.
Speaker 1:Yeah, but that is ego, that's you know and it's we all have it, especially when you operate at that level, like you said. But what needs to change about the military is, if you think about war marine training, you've got 32 weeks of war marine training. If you don't meet the criterias and you don't get up to the standards of being a soldier before those 32 weeks, then you get kicked out. You know you won't become a soldier. It takes those 32 weeks to become a soldier, right. So once you transition, boom, 32 weeks, you're a soldier. There's no reverse program for that. So you've gone from being a civilian into into the military world right.
Speaker 1:Then you're a full-blown adult and all of a sudden you're chucked out into civvy street where you had to train to think like a soldier, to be like a soldier, to, to, to, to, to fight like a soldier, um, which is a completely different world to civvy street. You know you've got the, a completely different world to civvy street. You know, you've got the military world and you've got civvy street Then. But you're not trained to be a civilian again, you know, you're just chucked into society. So where's the, where's the, where's the untraining? But you're entering into a different world. It's almost like going you know never been to school. For when you're entering into a different world, it's almost like going you know never been school. For when you're chucked into university, it's like you know just paying your taxes. You know rents, you know in how to have, how to just the basic things in life and then also how to act in civvy street.
Speaker 1:Now I realized very quickly that zero tolerance to violence. I've got cut violence out my life. I can't go into code red aggression anymore because you know if you show any bits of anger you'll be on a bar basket weavers course and you know you've got anger management. It's like you know. So I've got to tone this down. I've got to cut that out my life. Um, and all they do in the military? They train, they give you course, but you're on courses. It might put you on a chippy's course, on a plasterer's course or pt's course, but they don't know. They need to train you like they trained you to become a soldier. They now need to train you, I believe, to become a civilian, which they don't do.
Speaker 2:I mean, has there been any talk of that?
Speaker 1:um, yeah, I've been in talks with certain people but, yeah, you know you're barking up the wrong street because, ultimately, once you're out the military, they don't care. You know, and this isn't a sympathy thing, it's like you're out in the military. They don't care and this isn't a sympathy thing. It's like you're no longer an asset. All of the veterans that are outside that clump together, they're all looked after by charities, by military charities. They're not looked after by the military and once you're out of that organization, it's like so it's like you know there's there's ways of doing it, but they're just not interested that you're, you're an asset one minute and the moment you sign off, you're you're, you're no good to them you're used to them.
Speaker 2:Where does mental health fit into it all ah?
Speaker 1:mental health is, um, it's. It's a difficult one because, you know, mental health is about being brutally honest for yourself and I've seen too many people using mental health as an excuse than the other way around. So I've got a bit of a sore touch, even though I know people that suffer from ptsd, that suffer and you know, good, good blokes um, you know, the flip side of that is people wasting resources, using it as an excuse, wanting to be um, you know, want to be part of of, of of a club that they, they, they're not in. It's really strange the way that I'm saying it, but you know, not that they want mental health, but they want to feel wanted again. They want that connection with the military that you know people are abusing the systems. You know saying you know I suffer from mental and they don't.
Speaker 1:Some of the stories I've heard, some of the stories that I've called people out on, are shocking. They're using, they're jumping on their old mental health bandwagon and it's shocking. But then you look at mental health. Mental health, you know it's so vast, it's so big. The problem is so big nowadays that they're allowing people to use it in plain sight. Now you look at what's going on in the Western society at the moment where people have wanted men becoming women, children, babies. That's mental health in plain sight. The, the problem of mental health is so big that that they can't control it. So what they do is they allow it to to transpire in plain sight because it's so huge, so huge.
Speaker 1:So, you know, trying to, you know you're, you're like just like chucking a needle into a haystack to try and deal with this problem. But it's, um, it's, it's something that I don't really dive into because I don't really understand it to the extent where I've been on the line, where I've been in that bad, those bad head spaces, but I've never teetered onto into the, into that remit of of mental health where I could understand it. But what I try and do and what I do to empower people is a prevention before the cure. You know I can see them going down a certain road. So I try and I try, and you know, coach them or mentor them in a way where you know I pull them back from the line if that makes sense, that makes sense.
Speaker 1:But anyone that crosses that where you know I pull them back from the line, if that makes sense. But anyone that crosses that line, then you know, I try and help them out in my books and I try and get them on the straight and narrow, but it really is down to the individual. You know how honest they are with themselves, how they have to hold themselves accountable and moving forward, but it's a huge problem. It's a huge problem, but one that's being made a mockery of, I believe, which really, really frustrates me.
Speaker 2:And on a similar vein. I mean stats show that soldiers moving into civilian life are more likely to be susceptible to addiction. I mean, is that something you've seen or can talk firsthand on?
Speaker 1:Addiction. Do you know what? We do? A lot of drinking in the military, so you know alcohol is a huge part of the culture, so yeah, I can see how that is.
Speaker 1:The number one drug, addictive drug in the world is alcohol, but it's legalized, so it's it's. You know it's not classed as a problem, but it's a huge, huge problem and and nine times out of ten someone's got mental health issues. Yeah, if you, if you take them off the drugs and take them off the alcohol and, and you know, put alcohol and you know, put them on a program, you know, keep them clean for, I'd say, four to six months, those mental health issues will go away. I promise you that. I've been in a state where you know I've lost friends. You go out and drink, and heavily. You know you'll be on a day or two. You know with the lads. You know as'll be on a day or two. You know bender with the lads.
Speaker 1:You know, as you've just buried your pal from Afghanistan, and you realise that all you're doing is damaging yourself. All you're doing is just a detrimental effect of how you feel. You're just digging yourself deeper into a hole. And there was one moment that I was at a funeral buried a friend that died, and I was that drunk that I was asking where he was. I didn't even realise I was at his fucking funeral. I was like where's so-and-so? They're like man, what the fuck are you talking about? And.
Speaker 1:I'm like where is he? He's meant to be here. I didn't even realise that I was at a funeral. I felt like I was just on the pierce with the lads. And that's when I, and when someone sort of you know said what you're playing at, and I sort of. So, you know, I had a reality check like whoa, alcohol's starting to really, you know, take charge here. And the moment someone starts to take charge of me, I won't allow that to happen. So I'm so headstrong, I won't allow people to take charge of me. I want that situation to take charge. I won't allow I to happen. So I'm so headstrong, I won't allow people to take charge of me. I won't allow situations to take charge of me. I won't allow. I'll always find a way. I'll always find a solution. I'll always, you know, find a route through and beyond it.
Speaker 2:So, and that's why you know, when people cut out alcohol, I was going to say did you just cut back on alcohol, or do you not? You?
Speaker 1:still, you still drink. Yeah, yeah, I still do. Yeah, I cut back on it. But when people say I don't drink anymore, I'm like, yeah, that's probably wise and that's your decision. But that would bother me because I'd think, well, I'm not drinking because that's got control of me, right. And I would think, right, let me get control of it. And I did go through a stage of not drinking. I did go out. I rarely drink, so when I do, you know it's all in moderation. But it's like everything, everything in moderation. But if you're struggling with mental health, I'd say cut out booze, cut out any synthetic highs and cut out negative people around you. You can isolate yourself and you know, use one or two people positive people around you to get you out of that hole. Because we think we've got so many friends. But as you go through life, you soon realize that you've got yourself and your mindset, your decision making and your emotions and everything is a decision from there onwards.
Speaker 2:And we talk about adjustment issues and obviously you know this not so good period of your life I think 2013, you ended up going to prison. Yeah, I did yeah, I mean, I guess talk to me about the time around that and where your head was at and so, um, when I went to prison, I got into a fight with a male police officer.
Speaker 1:Now, a lot of people think that I got into a fight with a female police officer, but there was two police officers on the scene that night. On the scene of what happened, there was an argument. I got called out of the club, ran out out of the club, split up the groups. My group had put them all in a taxi and as I came back around, the police that were with the other group. I naturally thought because I know how to deal with these situations, if you take them around the corner and they're outside, that's great. So when I came back around and they hadn't moved that other group of people, they hadn't moved that other group of people they started shouting at me as I was going back in the club to grab my stuff. And so I said to the police officer I've just put taking all my lot around the corner, put them in. I shouldn't have done it as a drunken decision, right, but I just I questioned the police and put all my lot in the cab around the corner and you've uh, you've still got these people here.
Speaker 1:Now I've come back around and they're abusing me again and obviously he didn't like being told what to do and an argument got into fisty cuffs and I ended up getting charged with Section 20 GBH because I had a fight with a male police officer and also I got charged with common assault on a female police officer. Now common assault, because it's got the word assault people think that I've laid a finger on her, I could spit at you right now. That's common assault. If you, if I, verbally abuse you and you fear for your life, that's common assault. So the police officer and she writes it in her statement I didn't lay a finger on her, but where she got out her spray and I was obviously what she witnessed was, yeah, it was wasn't nice. She literally feared for her life. So I got charged with common assault as well. Only a couple of months, but concurrently I got charged. I got sentenced to 14 months and, um, I'm glad I did. It was the best life lesson that I ever went through when did the wake-up call happen?
Speaker 2:was it that first day, that first day in?
Speaker 1:no, the wake up call happened when the hammer went down, but in a really positive way. When the hammer went down, I felt so relieved, I was happy. I remember the hammer went down, gave me my charge, gave me my sentence. The hammer went down. By the moment the hammer went down, I knew what I needed to do. There was no more. I tend court to do this like I know what I need to do. I've been sentenced to 14 months. I looked at my wife and smiled, said I've got this. Uh, 14 months, I know I'll be out in seven. If I, if I'm a model prisoner, I'll be out in four and a half five months on tag. So as soon as that hammer went down, in my head is in my head, no word of a lie in my head I thought I need to be the best prisoner that I can be. So that was a challenge. I set myself a challenge. I set myself challenges with everything, no matter how negative it is or how positive it is. I set myself a challenge okay, to ascertain a positive result, a positive outcome.
Speaker 1:So as soon as I went to prison, the first day I got in there, I was mopping floors. No one wanted to mop the shitters. No one wanted to mop the floors. I was like, give me a job. I had about four jobs. I was mopping the shitters, mopping the floors, looking, mopping the corridors um teaching people to read and write, which got me out of my cell at night. Teaching um being a confident, so someone that a confidant, so someone that was struggling at night I'd go and I was allowed into their cell to talk, to talk to them about their mental health issues or whatever it may be. And then I worked my way up to a PT monitor I work in the gym and I kept myself to myself and just focused on becoming the best prisoner that I could be. And, lo and behold, I got released early on, good behavior.
Speaker 1:But I took it as a challenge. I was excited when that hammer went down. Honestly, I was excited. I thought I've got a challenge in front of me.
Speaker 2:Let's do it. And how was your relationship with your missus during this time? I mean, I guess in general? I mean she sounds like she's got the patience of a saint, you know you're off to. Afghanistan. You're having one phone call a month. You come out and she probably thinks you're about to have to jail. I mean, did you, were things fraught for you guys, or was she always being very supportive?
Speaker 1:very supportive. I've been very, very selfish and I look back on I had my priorities all wrong. My priorities were the military and priorities were my mates. Um, and when I went to prison, when I left, the military wasn't there. My mates weren't there. The only person that was there was a one common denominator throughout my whole life, or throughout the majority of my life, with my wife now for 19 years, was emily.
Speaker 1:That woman, she was just a constant and that's when I realized, right, I got all my priorities wrong. There's a huge learning curve. Going to prison again, that's where I realized I had to separate the two worlds. I couldn't merge the two worlds together of having a military mindset of aggression with extreme aggression, violence with extreme, extreme violence is like no, I've got cut violence out my life full stop. Zero tolerance to violence. I've thought about this all in prison. Same with aggression can't never go into that code red aggression. You don't need to. Aggression can't never go into that code red aggression. You don't need to add to tone it down. You know you can go there, but now you tone it down. Um, so it was, it was needed. It was probably the best thing that happened to me during that stage, because if I'd have got away with that, god knows what damage I would have done thereafter and and potentially got away with, or potentially have done more harm and got a heftier sentence. Um, so, but I'm I'm very positive like that. You know, if, if you tackle a negative situation with a negative mindset, guess what the outcome is going to be negative every single. I've been there far too many times to tell you any of that.
Speaker 1:So when I got sentenced, there's a negative situation, negative environment that was going in. I had to adopt a positive mindset to get through it. I had to, otherwise I would have probably have gotten fights, I probably would have done the whole 14 months, probably wouldn't even let me out at seven. That's what a lot of people do. So I, I take on the three, the three awarenesses. Right, it's the environment, the people and yourself.
Speaker 1:So if I've got positive uh headspace, if I've got positive mindset and I'm entering into a negative environment around negative people, then the odds are against me. So I probably won't venture into that environment. Okay, because I'll get drained of my positivity. However, if I've got a positive mindset, positive people around me, and I'm entering a negative environment, then I'll take that on every single day. I'll always make sure that the positivity out balances or outweighs the negativity.
Speaker 1:It's the same with if I enter, um, if I've got positive people uh, positive um environment and I'm in a negative headspace and I want to, I want to enter that into that environment as much as I don't want to um. So I always try and take those three, those three into account in everything that I do and I keep my life very black and white. You know my. My problem solving is a, is a is a y junction. You know it's yes, no, good, bad, positive, negative, right, wrong, like boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom and I get to where I need to be very, very quick I don't always get it right.
Speaker 1:You know I make a lot of mistakes and I'll get things wrong quite a lot, but um, that's how.
Speaker 2:That's how I like to look at my life so you come out of jail, you've decided while you've been in there that, uh, you're gonna, you're gonna change it, change your life, turn your life around. What's, uh, what happens on the first day and what's the journey after that?
Speaker 1:the first day I got out I went straight and worked um in the close protection uh remit. So I went straight to london, looked after a family 200 quid a day, done that for a couple of months, built up um my money and then went out to africa um doing close protection, working for government um, for governments out there trained the first ever snipers in s Leone to deploy to Somalia.
Speaker 1:And then I bounced on such a good job there that I bounced from Sierra Leone to Burundi to East Africa and done the same there, trained there first ever snipers, and then bounced to the Ivory Coast back west. That's called Divois.
Speaker 2:Who are you working for? Are you working for, like, the Somalian army, or whatever? It is yeah, military governments and there's no, I can't remember what the word is patriotism, if that's the word that they only want to use Somalians to train Somalians, they'll outsource to the best, will they?
Speaker 1:Yeah, they need us Especially. You know Sierra Leone is a lot of. They're trained by the Brits. So anyway, they're Brits who train. But this was a specific contract. They needed a specific skill set, which was snipers. I was a sniper in the military so I got a call saying we've come and trained our snipers. I had a connection with Sarah Leone because I went there in 2006 with the military. So, yeah, I just bounced around Africa and I bounced around Africa for about two years and then Channel 4 came knocking for SAS. Who dares wins?
Speaker 2:And how did that come about? I mean, what were they looking for? They were looking for ex-army. What were they looking for? They were looking for ex-army people who?
Speaker 1:no, they were looking for ex-special forces, right. So to run um, to run a condensed and diluted version of special forces selection. They're not army training, not basic training. You know, right at the top, see if we could put civilians through um, through special forces selection, see if they got the attributes and characteristics of a special forces operator. And I literally was in sierra leone when I got the phone call. I got a phone call saying, um, we've got your number for so and so. So once I heard the name I thought, right, okay, look, we want to. We're looking at running a tv program. Are you up for it? And was it an immediate yes, no, it was a phone down, it was like yeah, just leave me alone.
Speaker 1:I'm quite happy bouncing around africa and I, the more I thought about the prospect and a new opportunity. It excited me and, um, then I said, look, I'll come back to back to London and I'll have a chat with you. And I had a chat with them. The powers to be in London got wind, special forces got wind of it, and they told me that to steer clear of it, to go nowhere near it. Well, the moment they told me that it's like showing me the big red button. Why were they telling you to steer clear? Because it would go against the secrecy act that I've signed. You're not allowed to be filmed. You're not allowed to be.
Speaker 1:Oh, because you're not supposed to say that that's what your job was, yeah, and you're not supposed to release your identity. So, yeah, there was a big bit of a kerfuffle about that and in the end I said, look, I don't belong in the military anymore, you don't own me anymore. I'm gonna go and do it. You know I lived in the shadows in the military. You know I expected to do that. But you expect me to live in the shadows in civvy street when you don't pay for my bills, you don't put a roof over my head, you don't feed me or my family, like they're almost trying to control you with, with, with, with their ways when you weren't part of the organization, and that pissed me off was there a genuine legal issue around that?
Speaker 2:they actually. How did that get dealt?
Speaker 1:with this. I just said, look, I just had to sign sort of like a waiver to say that you know they can no longer protect my identity, okay, and that I can be filmed okay, oh, so it was, you could wave it, it wasn't.
Speaker 2:It wasn't that they could prevent you they could have done.
Speaker 1:Yeah, they could have taken me to court, um, but it's, you know, it's one of those where, as long as I'm not giving away any secrets and drills and skills and you know any top sort of secret information, then it's all been done before you know. This was done years ago, but we just done it better, we've done it bigger, we've done it more, we've done it psychologically better, we've done it emotionally better and they didn't have me were you the only special forces person on that team.
Speaker 1:No, so when we kicked off there was four of us, so there was myself, foxy, who still does the UK version, ollie, who does the Australian version with me, and a guy called Colin, who left after series one. So out of the three originals that took on the role, foxy does the UK version, me and Ollie do the Australian version.
Speaker 2:Did you know each other from before? Yeah, I knew.
Speaker 1:Foxy. I didn't know Colin, but Ollie knew Foxy really, really well. It was Foxy that brought Ollie on board. Really, I was on board from day one and, yeah, we just filmed it. As soon as we filmed the first series, I went straight back to Africa to continue with my contracts and then I got a phone call saying you need to get back here. This series is going to blow. The press want to talk to you, everyone wants to talk to you. Get back here now. I said I can't, I'm doing a contract, I'm halfway through a contract. So they said look, listen, scrap. You can't trust me, get back here. So I got back here. The show came out and I've never looked back since.
Speaker 2:You know, since then how many seasons did you do?
Speaker 1:So I'm still doing it now. Oh, in Auss I've done 16, 17 series today, wow yeah, and then we're still going strong. In Australia we're taking it international. Uk one is not what it was. The UK one's been axed now. The original format has been axed. I think they only do the celebrity one now. So the original format that you know I wrote on the back of a cigarette pack has been ax.
Speaker 2:Actually doesn't go ahead anymore in the uk. How, how um involved were you in the kind of writing of the training and the actual makeup of it.
Speaker 1:I wrote the whole second series. I was the only one out of the ds that went out prior with the production team to uh, to do the whole course, to structure the whole course. Um, the guys met me later on. I gave them sort of an orientation of what the course would look like and how we'd run things. And you know, myself and the production team, we, we structured that whole second series and then it went on from there, the third series, and then, you know, more production got involved, the more tick boxing got involved, more wokeness got involved. It became it became a reality tv show rather than the military course how did the um celeb show compare to the non-celeb show?
Speaker 2:I mean any, any particular memories, any celebs that you thought would be uh shit, but were great, or you thought would be good but be good.
Speaker 1:But were at first, you know, the celebrity one. We could really push them because we didn't treat it any different to the civvy one, civilian one. But then you know, as time gets on, it's you know right, we've paid this amount of money for this person. We need to keep them on for for this amount of time a little bit longer, you, and that's not the idea of the course. So, but the first, I would say the first one, the first two, the celebs were hardcore, and the person that sticks out to me is Wayne Bridge, oh yeah.
Speaker 1:The former England Chelsea footballer left back. He's just got a tank on him. He would just go forever. He stood out quite a lot, to be fair, in a super positive way. I don't like to bad mouth anyone, but there were some shocking celebs that obviously last not even a few hours, mentioning no names. But again, you know, they've come on the course, they've given it a go. They've probably just come there to collect a paycheck.
Speaker 2:I saw a quarter of an episode once at a friend's house. I think it was the one where Katie Price was on.
Speaker 1:I think she lasted about 12 hours. But listen, she's. You know she's revamping herself, isn't she? So they use it as a platform as well, understandably. So you know you can't fault them for that, but it's not for celebs, really and talking of celebs, obviously it made you a celeb.
Speaker 2:I mean, how did you adjust to that? I mean, you know, you've adjusted to army, you've adjusted back to being a civvy. Was there an adjustment to being a celeb? You know what I'm?
Speaker 1:very fortunate that I've had a credible and extremely credible career beforehand, because I can see how these younger celebs and I hate that word celeb, because celeb, nowadays you can be on a, you know, you can have sex on a TV show and you become a celeb. You know it's cringeworthy and I don't fit in a room for the celebrities, I certainly don't, because I can just smell and see the fakeness and it irritates me. I'm not saying all celebs, of course, but you know that world is very fickle, it's very fake, it's media driven, it's agency driven, where they want to push you down a certain road and make you be a certain person, mould you into a certain character. And that's just not me.
Speaker 1:You know again like I said I can't be, uh, I can't be, uh, controlled in that manner. I just need to be me, um. But what's really positive about being me is people know, if you're looking for rawness and authenticity, then come to me, whether that's talks, books, tv programs, business. Now, if you want an honest opinion, you want me to lead your group and you want me to lead you to success. You want me to flip your mindset. You want me to to, to make you realize what you're capable of. Come to me, I'll do that. If you want authenticity and wellness in filming, or anything that that I do, come to me, I'll do that. If you want authenticity and wellness in filming, or anything that that I do, come to me. And that's what's. That's what happens in this industry. People come to me now because they know exactly what they're going to get, who they're going to get and the the work ethic they're going to get out of me.
Speaker 1:And, um, a lot of people don't come to me because they feel intimidated or they feel like, you know, I'm maybe a bit too outspoken or maybe a bit too.
Speaker 1:My ways are a bit, you know, unorthodox, shall we say, but all I'm trying to do is empower people with themselves. That's all I want to do, whether that's through tough love, whether that's through pushing you to your limits physically, psychologically or emotionally. All I I want to do, whether that's through tough love, whether that's through pushing you to your limits physically, psychologically or emotionally all I'm trying to do and all I want to do is make you realize what you're capable of, and make you realize who you are and empower you with with self-belief, and that's all I want to do to people. That's why I write books, that's why I go on my tours, that's why I continue to film, um, because if you realize what you are truly capable of, then you, you would, you, we wouldn't be sitting here right now. You know, it's, it's phenomenal what we're capable of, and it fascinates me and I just like to bring that out of people how many books have you written now?
Speaker 1:so I've written five non-fiction books and two fiction books. So I've written seven books so far. Nine books, and I've written two books so far. Nine books and I've written two children's books and do you write them all yourself?
Speaker 2:would you work with you know helpers, ghost writers? I?
Speaker 1:have a ghost writer but I spend a hell of a lot of time on my books. You know, um, so I've got such a good relationship with my publishers, hubba collins, because they know, you know, when they give me my advance, they know a lot of that is going on. You know, on writing the book now I lock myself away with the ghostwriter for three, four days at a time. I'll rent out a cottage or you know a hotel room somewhere in the middle of nowhere. I'll say to my ghostwriter come for three, four days, we're gonna, moment we wake up, we going to get the bulk of this book done and then the next three or four visits will be two days, another two days. So I spend a hell of a lot of time on my books. I've got to make sure that when people read it they feel like I'm talking to them. And when I explain situations that it's done and I say in layman's terms but in the ways that I process them, the people can look at and almost kick themselves, go wow, that's a process that I can understand and I can take on board. And with the overwhelming sort of response, humbling response I've had about my books, you know if I showed you my messages just on instagram, you know, and again, just saving people's lives, changing people's lives. You know, a lot of people in prison read my books, a lot of people that are going through heart and that's where the mental health, you know, I try and help out with the mental health side of things to stop them from falling into that hole. Um, that's why I still do what I do, because, uh, that the reward for that. You know people who come up to me. I've never read a book in my life and they say but your book, I couldn't put it down. It was so easily laid out, so easily to relate to that, I could understand it.
Speaker 1:And because I've been through life, I've been dragged up, not brought up. I've been through the hard times. I've been through the suffering. I've been through the hard times. I've been through the suffering, I've been through the hardships. You know the pain, the tears, the blood, the sweat, done it, done it all. And when I put it down on paper and I talk people through how to get through things through life experience. Now he's been there, I've done that. I get that rather than being, you know, someone that's just writing a book because I think that this method works, or you know, I've been told that it does. So my books are huge and I can. I'll continue writing until I think I've got a good you know three, four more books in me, you know. So, uh, that I hope to do for for a while longer I mean you say blood, sweat and tears.
Speaker 2:It's funny. I was recording with someone else this morning and we yeah, he was using the same expression. Everybody uses the expression blood, sweat and tears. But he said I've really had the blood and gave an example of the sweat, gave an example of the tears. When was the last time you cried?
Speaker 1:On K2, when I climbed K2. I climbed K2 last year and I climbed it in 19 days, um, non-acclimatized, so that was super quick and obviously when you climb it quick like that you're not acclimatized properly, you know it's. It's an emotional journey that you go on and I was, uh, it's only on the back end of a 15 hour day of going from camp three to the summit, um, bypassing camp four. We didn't stop off at camp four, we just done a marathon sort of summit bid. Um, and between camp four and the summit, I was probably halfway up and it's so steep that there was this woman that was that came down and on her way down she, she stopped and unclipped and went around me because I'm on my way up you know, it's common courtesy, mr, you know. So as she stopped, she sat down and I, because it's so steep, I was like on one knee, you know, leaning forward, and uh, on my summit suit I have all my, my wife, my children written on there so I can look down at it. And uh, I said, how is it up there? She went, it's beautiful. She went, it is beautiful and you're almost there.
Speaker 1:I was an emotional wreck at this stage, you know I had my goggles on. She couldn't really see me as I had my oxygen on. She said it's beautiful. She said Emily, oakley, shiloh, gabriel, fresais and Bly she read the names out perfectly. She said they're all extremely proud of you. They'll be extremely proud of you. You've got this far. They'll be extremely proud of you when you stand on the summit.
Speaker 1:And she didn't have to stop and say that she didn't have to, she just summited. She didn't need to tell that to me, she could have just nine well, ten times out ten people just go past you. They've done their summit bit. All they want to do is get down. It's a very sort of one-way mentality when you, when you hit the higher peaks, the 8 000 meter peaks, she didn't need to stop and do that.
Speaker 1:And what she didn't know is that I was using my children from camp to camp. So I imagined that my daughter was by my side every time I was taking a step and I was in pain and I was struggling. Just imagine that I was nurturing my getting them up the mountain. So it's just, it's the way it's an emotional way that I got through, got through the climb so quick and when she said that to me. I took two, three steps forward.
Speaker 1:Once she unclipped and went around me, I took two, three steps forward and just sunk down on both knees and just started crying because I thought to myself, wow, she doesn't know how much I'm suffering right now, she doesn't even know that I'm using my kids to get me to the, to the top of this mountain. And she sat, stopped, pronounced all of my children's and my wife's name to a T and told me that it was a weep of you know, just you know. I cried for about four or five seconds. It was like a release boom, boom, boom. And you know, I had my goggles on anyway. So I sort of dried my eyes, stood up, took a deep breath and cracked on up the mountain. So that was the last time I shed a tear.
Speaker 2:I did Kilimanjaro a couple of years ago and my last cry was on Summit Night on Kilimanjaro, as well, yeah, those high altitudes certainly get you, don't they?
Speaker 1:Have you done Kili? No, I haven't done Kili no, k2, that's technical.
Speaker 2:Have you got a technical climb or not?
Speaker 1:K2 is the hardest mountain in the world. So you've got Everest, which is the highest. K2 is the second highest, but the most technical of the 8000 how long is the climb? It's normally about to acclimatise correctly.
Speaker 2:You're looking at 5-6 weeks oh, it's a long time yeah same same as everest, I think.
Speaker 1:Um. Well, I know that um k2 sits probably 160 meters less in altitude than than um everest. So I've done yeah, I've done those two. I've climbed various other mountains as well, but I'm trying to. Next year I'll try and knock off the uh, the third heist.
Speaker 2:I want to do the top three, but if you don't involve any technical climbing, let me know I'll tag along for the ride. I want to do another one. I was talking about I can't say the bloody name Aconcagua, no, I can't say that either.
Speaker 1:Aconcagua is in the Argentinian Andes. It is a hard hike. It is a hard hike, it's a hard hike and it's the highest of the seven summits. Not the seven summits, because obviously Everest is, but it's one of the highest of the seven summits and it sits just below 7,000 meters, I think. If you're going to plan to climb your 8,000ers. Aconcagua is a great mountain to do.
Speaker 2:And you can do it without technical climbing.
Speaker 1:It's a hard, yeah. Yeah, you don't know technical climbing at all, so go for that one. You'll enjoy that one, and it's it's not. It's not too dissimilar from killy, as in this killy's quite dirty mountain, quite dusty it's the same with with akon kagwa, but very windy, so just be.
Speaker 2:I'll call you for some tips before I go and tell me we spoke a while ago about the corporals giving real shit to the new people and the trainees. I mean, how is that let's say behavior? Has it changed at all in today's more woke world and you know, let's say politically correct world? I guess A has it changed at all in today's more woke world and you know, let's say politically correct world, I guess A has it changed. And B. Therefore, are the soldiers of 2023 less tough than the ones of 10 or 15 or 20 years ago?
Speaker 1:I would say yes, you know, unfortunately, woke politics has breached the military at the very top level as well, um, which is sad to see and unfortunate to see, because I think, you know, within that special forces remit it should be special forces. Only, you know, um years ago they started allow allowing um, non-badged special forces officers into into the headquarters of of the, you know, the special forces therefore bringing their sort of non-special forces ways, and that was sort of like the start of the demise of the special forces becoming a bit woke, and then thereafter it was the outside having an influence on the military and then the military having an influence. So it was a bit of a knock-on effect. But it really depends who's in charge of, you know, of the organisation, yeah, but yeah, unfortunately, wokeness has got in everywhere. It seeps in.
Speaker 1:All you know you leave a door open, you leave a crack open, it's going to seep in. All you know. You leave a door open, you leave a crack open, it's going to seep in no matter what. Um, so you just got to learn to to ignore it and, um, and yeah, surround yourself with, with like-minded, motivated people who aren't looking to be offended, who aren't looking for excuses, you don't feel entitled, who you just want to to be there to do the job and be the best at what they do.
Speaker 2:Do you find that it's typically, let's say, the powers that be that are having it forced on them, as opposed to wokeness or snowflakiness or whatever you? Want to call it from the people, from your peers, because I guess I'm thinking, ultimately, these guys joined the army, knowing what the army is. They didn't join the army to say, hey, stop shouting at me.
Speaker 1:Yes, the power of the hierarchical structure. It goes beyond any government, any military organization. So it's definitely peer pressure. Peer pressure, um, you know, pressure to conform, can pressure, um, pressure to to, uh, to go along with the media narrative, should we say, or or the the world narrative that's being run by a few people that sit at the top. It's definitely being pressured from the top all the way down and, uh, if you don't adopt certain ways, then the organizations are shut down, organizations are being pulled of funds, organizations are being being what's the word I'm looking for being are being targeted, really are being, you know, forced to, forced to take on these rules and regulations, otherwise they're, they're, they're gonna suffer. So it's definitely a huge peer pressure from the top, from the top all the way down.
Speaker 2:It just doesn't seep in, you know, from the sides it's, it's, it's trickling from the top down and I mean you know we're in a time uh, I mean a period, where you know the alpha males and where alpha males are frowned upon, cancelled Words like toxic masculinity are being used. I can't even say it. I mean, how has that impacted on you? How has it changed? It's?
Speaker 1:absolute nonsense. It's absolute nonsense. I don't take any notice of it. Toxic masculinity, car I think there's more toxic femininity than you know than there is toxic masculinity. Um, but listen, no, I don't know, don't agree with either of those um words. It's, it's just their way of of demasculizing you, isn't it? It's strong. If strong men stand together, then you become a threat, you become, you know, intimidating, you become a problem, and if they can break that down and and and take that away, then you become less of a threat and all it is is is dividing, conquer, isn't it? They try and divide all these groups. You know black, white against whites. You know trans against non-trans, vaxxers against non-vaxxers. You know COVID against conspiracy, whatever it is. They're trying to splinter these groups into smaller and smaller and smaller groups. So ultimately, we police ourselves.
Speaker 2:We argue with ourselves, but do you think it's done for control? But do you think it's done for control or do you think it's done for media to give angles?
Speaker 1:No, it's done for control. Yeah, it's population control. Led by who, wouldn't you like to know? It's, yeah, led by a few companies that sit at the very, very top that control the governments, that control the banks, control the world, control the world. And you know, you don't have to dive too deep into it to realize that. You know, the world is one big stage. It's one big stage and we are being controlled. When I talk about population control, it's a population control on overpopulation, population control on making sure that we don't know we don't we, we don't get too powerful, whether we don't stick together. You know population control in in keeping people in the system, keeping people in jobs. You know taxing people to the hilt so they can never really make it in life. You know there's so many, many forms of population control that we'd need another podcast to talk about.
Speaker 2:Is that your way of asking me to rebook you? Yes, it is, but what do you think the ultimate end game is for these people who are, you know, allegedly in control? And it's not my space in the slightest, but you know, sometimes I have these conversations with people and they say who are, you know, allegedly in control? And it's not my space in the slightest, but you know, sometimes I have these conversations with people and they say well, you know, these people at the top of the pharma companies or the top of you know, whatever it may be, you know, want to control the world. And you know, wouldn't you want to do the same if you were them?
Speaker 2:And I'm thinking, well, no, I wouldn't, to be honest, because the world that they're creating, or, if they are doing it, the world that's being created, is a shitter world than it was 10 or 20 or 30 years ago. And they still have to live in it as well. And when there's travel bans, or when there's mask mandates or wokeness and all this shit, it's a shit world. I think. Why the fuck would someone want to create that? I don't really know what the upside is.
Speaker 1:Follow the money.
Speaker 2:But with all the money in the world?
Speaker 1:what?
Speaker 2:are you going to do with it? When you're not allowed to travel, when you've got to wear a mask?
Speaker 1:Control. You buy that company, you control that company. You buy that company, you control that company. It's all a power play. Follow the money. The more money you have, the more money you have, the more power you have. The more assets you can buy, the more control you have, the more monopoly you can take over. And then if you've got two, three, four global companies like that, that ultimately run the narrative if they don't, then they're going to sanction you or or penalize you. Then you're going to play tune because you know it's all. It's all about the money.
Speaker 1:So, um, yeah, you're stuck in between a rock and a hard place. Do you play ball and just know what's going on and turn a blind eye to it? And you know, live a comfortable life and just get through it and have nothing in assets or leave nothing behind. Or do you go full, you know, retard with it and go against the system and get shut down, like a few people have, mentioning no names? Um, because you can't take on the establishment, you know.
Speaker 1:Or do you sit between the two, work, be smart enough to work, dip your toe in and out the system, use the system to your advantage and live outside of it? You know there's three things there. Are you going to just conform to it? Are you going to which they're winning? Are you going to go you know the complete opposite and call out the establishment that they're going to which they're winning? Are you going to go the complete opposite and call out the establishment that they're going to shut you down In fact, they're going to silence you, you're not winning. Or are you going to try and outsmart the system, which is a lifelong process, which is a lifelong challenge, which is a lifelong problem to have and live outside of the system, but dip your toe into the system and use it like the extremely rich know how to. That's what I'm trying to do.
Speaker 2:And obviously I mean you talk about positive mindset and we're living in a real cotton wool society, cotton wool world at the moment. So at the moment, I mean that's implying it's going to change, let's hope so. At the moment, implying it's going to change, let's hope so. But I mean, what do you see happening to the people of tomorrow with the lack of resilience that is now getting embedded in people?
Speaker 1:Adults have got to be adults. Adults have got to step up to the mark. You've got adults acting like children, children acting like babies, and you know you've got to wake up and smell the coffee and hold yourself responsible as an adult. And, like I said, when you've got adults acting like kids, kids acting like babies, it's you know. You've always got a devolution of mankind, if you wish. Now we, as adults, who are responsible, who, who, who can stand up? We've got. We've got. You know we've got to look at our children, and we've we've got to hold ourselves accountable and we've got to do what's right by them. Um, no matter what any establishment, government or whatever it may be says, you know what's best for your, for your child do you think we've been too subservient to um to to governments?
Speaker 2:I know I'm not subservient to government, but do you, but do you think as a country or as a generation? Well, governments.
Speaker 1:You know they're just there to keep you in the system. Right, you know, if there's no system, there's no government. If there's no government, there's no. So the system serves well for some people, but it's certainly not breeding resilient and hardened individuals. If not, it's weakening mankind.
Speaker 1:But, each to their own, some people like just to plod through life. Some people like just to be subservient to an organization or to an individual. Some people are submissive, like that. Some people like to to break the rules. Some people that's what I find so fascinating about the world everyone is is different. The moment you try and take those differences away, you try and put everyone in the same box, then that's when life becomes, you know, a bore. That's when you live on autopilot, that's when you live in the void. So I I try not to get involved in all that. I just try and focus on my priorities, which is my family, my work, colleagues, loved ones around me and the people that I gain inspiration and motivation for myself. I try and do what's best by them, and that gives me plenty of opportunities to, to, to work on. So, um, yeah, I think at the moment you get too tied up in controlling what you can't control.
Speaker 2:Um then, yeah, you're gonna find yourself in a bad place how worried do you think we should be at the uk, that is, um about being uh attacked by a superpower like russia?
Speaker 1:no, I don't think it's realistic. No, um, the moment that starts, it's gonna create a whole world of pain for everyone. So I don't think anyone would be stupid enough to do that, and I don't think anyone. You know, when you talk about weapons of mass destruction, I don't think anyone holds that capability to take out, you know, take out planet Earth.
Speaker 1:I don't think that exists, certainly to make a dent in it. But when people go, you know, earth will evaporate just by the tress of a red button. It's like no, you know, don't panic, don't worry, I can't see it coming in the near future.
Speaker 2:So March 2021, it was not a great time for you, I think, when you got into trouble for some remarks you'd made in relation to Black Lives Matters.
Speaker 1:Yes.
Speaker 2:Do you want to talk me through that?
Speaker 1:With the Black Lives Matters. It wasn't really about BLM. It was just what happened with that is. I got asked to go down with some military lads to protect Winston Churchill's statue because there was a BLM march that was happening and they were trashing all of the military memorials. I don't know if you remember that.
Speaker 2:Vaguely. Yeah, I try and stay out of these things. There was a big continuance.
Speaker 1:Yeah, so do I, so do I. But there's a big continuance that were going to go to just you know, military, in their uniforms, with their medals, and it's going to stand around a statue just to make sure that it wasn't sort of defaced, because there was rumours that BLM won the march and anything military they were very good at trashing and destroying. And someone said to me so I was planning on going down there. And someone said to me Ant, don't go down there. He said because the media, uh saying that anyone that's going down there to do that sit on the far right. So unless you want to be portrayed as the far right which I don't, I don't sit on the right, I don't sit on the left, I sit in the middle right then don't go down there because it could be detrimental to, to, to everything. So I thought to myself wow, so anyone that's outside of the BLM organization, that's down there that's doing that, is going to be classed as far right. So basically, it looks like it's a far right against the far left, which I don't really want to get involved in. You're right, um, so I didn't go.
Speaker 1:But then, um, I've speaking to a pal that's down there and he's just like, it's absolutely carnage down there. And he said it's literally no word of a lie. He said it's whites are fighting blacks and blacks are fighting what is it's? It's. I've never seen anything like it before in my life. He said there, there's kids in the streets, there's, it's carnage. So there was a tweet and I retweeted something and that's all I'd done. I retweeted something. That was because one, I was peed off, that I couldn't go down there, you know, and stand with military friends because we were in class as far right. Two, for that happening on our streets is disgusting, you know. And if it's far right against the far left, then car it's like, and all I put was a picture of BLM fighting, which the media portrayed as far right, and I put the far right against the far left, the extreme right against the extreme left, both not welcome on our streets, fighting in broad daylight. What example are you setting to our children? Absolute scum. Okay, that's what I put.
Speaker 1:And about the situation, I didn't say BLM or Black Lives Matter. I don't mix Black. Didn't say BLM or Black Lives Matter. I don't mix Black Lives Matter and BLM. Blm are a non-law abiding organisation. Black Lives Matter is completely. They've just cleverly put it together where you know you have to tread carefully around it. I never associate BLM with Black Lives Matter. I don't mix the two right. But the BLM were moving. I was talking about the BLM movement against a far right.
Speaker 1:The media said what happened two extremities and that they don't belong. What example? If you look at the tweet in its entirety, it's what example are you setting to our children? You know, absolute scum, you know, and then all of a sudden it's like Ant Middleton calls BLM scum it calm it's like no, no, no, no, and it blew it like because they take, take snippets, as you know how long do they make their own story um, seconds, um, and take it down, take it.
Speaker 1:So I ended up taking it down, um, and maybe I shouldn't have got an emotional, emotionally attached like that. But you know, you know people don't know the build-up of the story, of how I was meant to go down there and you know it's in it's, it's happening again, right.
Speaker 2:In hindsight, do you regret it?
Speaker 1:No, I don't regret anything that I do. You know it's led me to where I am. The thing about the BLM tweet or the retweet that I've done and the COVID stuff that I've done as well. You know I was employed after that. You know I was employed after that. You know I filmed two series of SAS after that. So you know to say that they that I've been, you know, sacked because of that and because of this, and it's just Do you get sacked at the time though?
Speaker 2:No, oh, you just got a bollocking from Channel 4?
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah just yeah, well, you know, they called me up and they just said you know what's that about? I said you know, I sort of explained the situation. I said these are my views and opinions and you know it's yeah, it just blew up and the media picked it up. You know, like they do, you know how they get away with being able to do it. I don't know.
Speaker 1:but, um, they picked it up and they the witch hunt started from there you know, the witch hunt went on from that moment onwards for about a year, year and a half. Um, it's set now, it's been been gone, now for a good good year witch hunt against you.
Speaker 2:Yeah, just yeah. And what kind of things were they doing to you? Just? Trying to find it out, just trying to dig all dirt.
Speaker 1:Yeah, everything, everything, so, and it's just something you've got to take on the chin. You know it's like should I have tweeted that? No, you know. Should I have got involved? No, Should I have just kept my nose out of it? Yes, but then you're none the better if you do. You know, and why aren't you getting? You're going to be a military man. Why aren't you sticking? It's like at that stage you're in lockdown as well. So you've got social media in front. That's the only way you're communicating. It was just like you know it's. It was something that I just go to myself. You know what. It's a life lesson, not? Not not a regret, it's a life lesson. Um, you know it's, it's, it's happened. What the positives that I can take from?
Speaker 2:it? Who do you think leads these witch hunts and these, I guess, these accusations?
Speaker 1:I don't know really, I think it's just the media, isn't it? The media and the message they want to portray, the narrative that they want you to adhere to, and if you don't adhere to it, then you know they're going to crack the whip on you or silence you, or I've just had it done at a lower level. You know, silent being silenced, and it's it's, it's just control, isn't it? That's all it is. People just want to control you, people want to um, people want you to adhere to, to us, to a one-way narrative, and that's what makes the world so interesting. We've all got different opinions, we've all got different views. We've all got different opinions. We've all got different views. We've all got different messages. We've all got different values, and they're just trying to box everyone into the same way of thinking. I suppose.
Speaker 2:And as a father now and also back then, how do you educate your kids insofar as what are your views with them on violence, on attacking violence with more violence? Or you were beaten as a kid because it was normal back then. Would you hit your kids now? Does this make you go completely the other way?
Speaker 1:No, I don't go completely the other way. But I don't hit my kids. They don't need to deal with violence or aggression. With aggression, I teach them to be aggressive, you know, because aggression is a great tool to get you through certain jobs, certain situations, um, to get you to certain places. You know, I've used aggression a lot to get up mountains. I've used aggression a lot to get through business. I've used aggression a lot to to get through life. You know, it's competition with other people, whatever it may be. So I teach them to be, to be aggressive to a certain extent, um, but you know, there's, there's the way of the land where it's like. I'll teach them to protect themselves as well. I'll always teach them to walk away.
Speaker 2:But if, if you, they're walking away and they're getting aggressed and you turn around, and then you, you preemptive attack, you, you, you, you go for it straight away, no hesitation how would you translate that aggression for you know, for people listening to this when we talk about, you know, using aggression to be successful in business, or to get up a mountain or to I don't know what you know get through a bad day in the gym? Um, I mean, can you I don't know maybe give a bit more example, a bit more context of you know how, how someone would go and use it for themselves?
Speaker 1:Well, if you've had a bad day at work, or if there's someone that's pissed you off, or there's a situation that you're not happy with and you're at home, you're either going to snap at your wife, you're going to snap at your children, you're just going to get into a dark place or a bad place. That's aggression, pent-up aggression that's waiting to get out, pent-up, and if you don't exercise it, it's gonna take charge of you. So what I do? If I feel that, if I've had someone that's upset me or pissed me off, or a situation that's happened where I'm feeling this pent-up aggression, um then I use it for to do a mega workout, for example, and I mean, you know, I let all that, or I use it. I'll go out for a run, you know, and and when I mean thrash myself, I choose a mountain, I'd run up, you know, I'd let all that go or I use it. I'll go out for a run, you know, and when I mean thrash myself, I'd choose a mountain, I'd run up, you know.
Speaker 2:I'd use it to my advantage. So we're saying, you know, to find positive outlets for this aggression, as in you know you've got to get it out of you somehow 100%.
Speaker 1:Right, because if you don't, you're going to take it out on the nearest person that's close, or the closest person that's that's to you, and what I mean by that is is the ones that you love. They end up taking a rap for someone that's pissed you off, they've given you their aggression, ultimately, and you'll pass that on to you. It's it's, I've been there, I've done it, but it's, it's not fair. You've got to realize when that aggression needs to be, and again, it's, getting up and doing something productive with it. It's not a case of just, you know, going on punching the wall, because that's counterproductive, right.
Speaker 1:But when you're working out, when you're doing something physical, when you're doing something, you know you might want to use that aggression to get into the office and just smash out some contracts, smash out some, and just, you know, just leave me alone, I'm gonna do what I need to do. That is progressive, right. It's it's you're actually using your aggression to your advantage, because what really gets me is people or situations putting you in that mood or in in that situation, and then for for them to win the win, the battle of of the wheels, because obviously they're getting to you and you're, you're snapping and taking out and they're almost, you know, breaching your home with without even stepping a foot into your, into your door. So I'm so competitive like that, like that, I won't allow that to happen. I think you know he's pissing me off, I'll go. You know, I won't, I won't allow that him to win or that person to win, if, if that makes sense.
Speaker 1:So I just break it down, and I do, and my wife understands that. I'm just like, right, I'm off to the gym, right, I'm off for a run. And it might be sporadic as hell, but it's better to be sporadic than for it to. You know, you can feel it, you know the answer, you know what you need to do.
Speaker 2:What kind of a character is your wife compared to you? You know, is she.
Speaker 1:We like chalk and cheese. So I'm sort of an extrovert, I'm a socialite. She's you know, she's a mother. She loves bringing the children up, she loves nurturing, she loves.
Speaker 2:How old are the kids? Now You've got four right the kids.
Speaker 1:Now you're looking after me. Um, yeah, she's the backbone of the family. Basically, she, she holds the fort. Um, and I go out and I'm a very traditional family. We're very, you know, not old school, I don't know, it's easy traditional. Now I'm the. I protect and provide as much as I can.
Speaker 1:My wife nurtures and you know she, when we had children straight away. Can I, can I stop work? I want to bring my children. I don't want anyone changing my children's nappies, I don't want anyone wiping my children's arses, I don't want anyone to be around them the moment they can talk. And then you're like kindergarten. They never went to kindergarten. They start school when they needed to start school. By that stage they're potty trained, they know how to talk. So you know, we made sure we've done all that. We take him, my wife takes him to school, she takes him to the clubs. You know, even now, you know we live in dubai and you know we could have the easy lifestyle of having, you know, a really good, you know, care and help.
Speaker 1:Um, my wife is, is, is a is a proper woman. You know she, uh, she likes to do that and it works really well with me because I like to get out and about. I need to get out and about, um, I need to be constantly on the go. I need constant challenges in my life. I need constant problems to solve in my life. I need constant stress, um, and pressure in my life in order to function. Positive stress, positive pressure towards positive goals. But, um, I need that in my life, otherwise I sit around twiddling my thumbs and I'll get myself in trouble let's talk about money money money, money, money, um.
Speaker 2:I mean, how important is money to you, um, and how? How's your life changed, I guess, as your career and your celebrities built and you're obviously making a lot more money nowadays than you were were back in your army days- yeah, no, money is uh, something, something that I concentrate on now, concentrate on making money.
Speaker 1:I've never focused on money my whole career and it's not the forefront of what I do. But you know, I know that money can be made, a lot of money can be made. I see a lot of people making money and I think to myself you know what, I'm going to go out and get mine. So it is not at the forefront but it's it's, it's up there when I do stuff. Now it's like right, where's what's the financial um benefits of this? What's the?
Speaker 1:You know, I don't allow it to control me. You know it has to be passion and a will to want to do it and a will to chuck myself 100 into that project. You know, first, from if it's 99% and it's really good, I've turned down nearly half a million pounds worth of of of sponsorship because the sponsor didn't fit right, it just didn't fit with me, and if people have to take them on, I'm like no, no, so that's, that's. As long as I keep that there, then I believe, then I believe I'll be on the right path and money is a byproduct that will just filter in the back end.
Speaker 2:And are you business minded yourself? You know, have you got a natural ability for business or do you have partners, managers?
Speaker 1:Do you know what? I do have a natural ability but not experience, but I'm getting into business at the moment and I'm surrounding myself with should I say, mentors or people that are are, you know, highly successful in business, and it's the people that you surround yourself with that hopefully you'll gain inspiration from and you'll gain knowledge from, and I'm jumping in the top end of business with a few people you know. So talk about a crash course, talk about you know learning quick, which I am a quick learner and I no doubt you know, within the next couple of years, make you know more money than than I care what to do with. So I'm not really worried about that side of things because I surround myself with the right people. You know, right time, right situation. I'm very good at doing that. Um and again, value for value me, giving them as much value as they give me. I think that's really important with any business relationship.
Speaker 2:What have you got anything you can tell us about?
Speaker 1:Not really that I can tell you about, but you know fingers in pies and, uh, I would say within the next few weeks, you know, sort of business stuff will will start to start to pop up, no doubt. Um, I'm involved with a few companies, um, that will be announced within the next couple of weeks. I can't release right now and again, all business, pure business, exciting business, sports and entertainment side of things. So, yeah, I'm really starting to plan wisely when it comes to business. Now. I'm fed up with working for a paycheck. You know, working for a paycheck is all well and good, but you know I've got the paycheck now to be able to pump that into something and let it look after itself.
Speaker 2:And have you made any investments to date? I don't particularly mean starting any businesses, but you know any investments you've made or any horrendous financial decisions that you've taken.
Speaker 1:No, yeah, I've made a few investments along the way From your 50s to your 100 grand. What kind of things? Property shares, yeah, yeah, projects, not property. No, because I believe you don't own any property. I certainly wouldn't buy any property in the UK, the amount that you get taxed and you know you don't really really own it. You only have to slip up once and they'll have that off you, so it's all kept within the system, right? That's what the banks and the government are clever at doing. So, yeah, I'll be very, very careful where I invest and I'll just make sure that it's going to benefit my children in the long run. Not really me, but it's going to benefit someone I can leave behind without them, you know, without being taken off of them.
Speaker 2:shall we say you mentioned mentors and that you know you're getting mentored by some business people at the moment. I mean, have you had or have you understood the concept of mentorship prior to this? Did you have any mentors in your earlier life or in the army days?
Speaker 1:No, do you know what I understand the concept of followership? You know there's leadership and there's followership. I spent the last 20 years in a leadership role and I think when it comes to business now I'm sort of reverting back into that followership role, like I did when I first joined the military. Followership is just as important. I believe that you know you're a good leader if you've got good followship, um, so it's almost that I've. I've done that followship into the leadership in the military and I'm now taking that back step of going into followship. Ie, you know people above me that are, that are mentoring me, that are showing me the way, um, and being a good leader by learning, observing and taking on board everything. That's that's done, um, and that's set for me as an example.
Speaker 2:What's a single piece of best advice if you, if you could pull out one thing that you've been told over the years, anything that you know really sticks to mind surround yourself positive people.
Speaker 1:It's so true, surround yourself positive people. Not necessarily people that have got shitload of money a very successful businessman but people that bring you up yeah, that that make you, that this yeah, make you feel like you know you're needed, that you're wanted and you know, surround yourself with those type of people, because if they can, if they can improve you as an individual, then that will naturally transpire in work, family, business, whatever it may be, rather than the outside in inside out and tell me, you know, I guess you know.
Speaker 2:final question that I I always ask people I mean, you've had, uh, I mean not only a very varied career, a very, very varied life with, I guess you know, all kinds of experiences that most people you know won't ever come close to. And you know, and at your age you're probably not even halfway through this journey yet, but I mean, if you had to look back on your life now, how would you define success?
Speaker 1:Success is in the eye of the beholder. Success success is in the eye of the beholder. Success is becoming a better version of who you were yesterday, knowing that you'd never get there. You will never be the best version of who you are. You'll never be the perfect you, because that doesn't exist. But what I love about becoming a better version of you, of who you are, that a lifelong purpose. You're chasing that carrot. Chasing that carrot, that's a lifelong purpose. It's a lifelong goal. You know, constantly committing, constantly learning, constantly growing, constantly becoming a better version of yourself. So that's what I would say to people is find a purpose within. There's nothing out there that gives me purpose. It's from within, here. You know, look at the world from the inside out and, uh, you know, because you're with yourself 100 of the time, all the time right is uh, you can't get away from yourself.
Speaker 2:So you learn about yourself, understand yourself, and everything else will fall into place that's wise words, buddy, and a fantastic conversation, and I'm definitely going to take you up on round two. Hopefully, hopefully, we can do it in Dubai.
Speaker 1:Let's do it. Listen. Dubai is set. I'm happy to do it in Dubai.
Speaker 2:It's been an absolute pleasure, mate, and thank you very much.
Speaker 1:Thank you, mate, thank you.
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