The Man Who Made Millions and Has Nothing to Sell You | Daniel Pekic

He has a £10M net worth, face tattoos, and absolutely nothing to sell you - and that alone should tell you this conversation is going to be different.

In this episode, Matt Haycox sits down with Daniel Pekic - Australian expat, Bitcoin holder since under $1k, and one of the most genuinely unbucketable people on the internet. They get into how Daniel actually built his wealth (hint: it starts on the dark web), why he considers $10M unimpressive by Dubai standards, and the one trait he believes the TikTok generation has completely lost.

Daniel doesn't hold back on the bigger picture either: the nanny state laws he happily breaks and why, his take on Western decline and whether it gets better before it gets worse, immigration, multiple passports, and what it really means to live as a sovereign individual. If you're tired of podcasts where someone's quietly selling you something, this is the antidote.

Chapters
0:00 - Coming Up
0:14 - Intro
1:40 - Who Is Daniel Pekic?
6:18 - The Cost of Impatience
15:02 - Building a Tattoo Empire in Bali
17:55 - Managing Artists & Running a Profitable Shop
23:51 - Why Business Partnerships Fail
29:50 - How He Actually Discovered Bitcoin
31:26 - The Moment Bitcoin Clicked
35:58 - Bitcoin vs Altcoins & Crypto Sovereignty
43:09 - Steroids, TRT & Performance
51:39 - Breaking Laws & Where to Draw the Line
56:46 - Is the West in Managed Decline?
1:01:32 - Immigration & What Daniel Actually Means
1:07:47 - Where He'd Actually Choose to Live
1:13:19 - Multiple Passports & Flag Theory
1:16:47 - The Face Tattoos: Regret or No Regret?
1:20:51 - What's Next for Daniel

Follow Daniel:
Youtube: https://www.youtube.com/@AskPekic
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/danielpekic/
Website: https://askpekic.com/ 

Transcript

Meet Daniel Pekich

SPEAKER_00 0:00

Drugs, the dark web. And the only way to get the Xanax, this particular type, was on the dark web. And my friend was, I wouldn't say he was a nerd, but he understood Linux and how to order things on the dark web. That was my first exposure to Bitcoin.

SPEAKER_02 0:18

Guys, Matt Haycock's here for a very special live edition of Stripping Off with Me, Matt Haycox. And today I've got a guest that uh I've actually wanted to get on for a few months, but he's ignored my messages until very recently. Um Daniel Pekich is here. And um look for for those of you, well, I say for those of you that don't know Dan, I don't think any of us do, other than what what we see on Instagram. So um I guess I would describe him as uh it's funny because before I came here, I was thinking I would describe Dan as um a guy who makes Dan um Andrew Tate look like a choir boy uh in terms in terms of his um content and his views and you know what some would say is provocative views. But you know, we've been in the house an hour getting ready for this, and I'm already dramatically surprised at uh at what a much um more relaxed and less aggressive personality I'm finding in real life than uh than than than what we what we see on Instagram. But uh I'm sure the uh I'm sure I'm sure the views and the ideas and and the and the uh and the special Daniel Pekich logic is still there. So look look looking forward to going deeper. Look, rather than me butchering who you are, um how would you describe to my audience who you are?

SPEAKER_00 1:34

It's in the bio. Young man with a mysterious source of income and nothing to sell to you.

SPEAKER_02 1:40

So okay, so look, let's take this mysterious source of a source of income then, because you know, uh obviously you you you talk about having Bitcoin, but but I guess obviously what interests the people who want to make money is is you know, where does that bitcoin come from? And I I I had uh a friend of mine, we I've done a couple of podcasts with uh a crypto guy that if you know a guy called Carl Moon. Uh he's a good guy, Carl, a good friend of mine. And we uh and we did we did the first podcast, and it was all very much you know, manifestation, manifestation. You know, he he makes these tens of millions, uh, but you know, he talks about how he manifested this life. And he said, uh, you know, let's uh you know let's do another one. I said, I'll do another one with you, but we can't just talk about manifesting money again because you know for for the people who want to make money, you want to learn something from you to say, look, I worked in a supermarket and I manifest manifested my uh my my millions, it just doesn't cut it. So uh I said look, you don't have to tell me your trade trade secrets, but I do want to understand how you actually made some money. Obviously, you've got these bitcoins now, which you've been buying since 2015. Uh, I think I think that's the date you first got in. Um I don't know what the price was back then, but so obviously having had them to then to to owning them now is going to be a massively profitable exercise. But where was you, I mean, where where were you making money from in the first place to be buying bitcoins? Because obviously some of the things we'll come to talk about is the vast quantities of bitcoins you've actually sold for you know for crazy small amounts of money back then. So, you know, what what what where where

Early Bitcoin Gains And Patience

SPEAKER_02 3:05

was the original package source of income?

SPEAKER_00 3:07

Okay, the first thing with Bitcoin is that people don't quite appreciate the gains the early investors have had. So 10 Bitcoin back then could have costed less than $10,000. That's the first thing. So if I had kept all the actual Bitcoin I had acquired, 15, 16, 17, even, we wouldn't even be here. So the first thing is when people say all the money, in in my eyes, in the eyes of many others in Dubai, what I have is not a lot of money. Minimum to be considered wealthy to us is 50 million. I'm not quite there yet. So to me, to have a net worth just over 10 million, which will go right up and right down, depending on the Bitcoin market, uh, it's not quite impressive to me. And I had this conversation on my stream today, and I said, guys, you you you have no idea of the amount of money being spent in Dubai. Oh, it's just a friend of mine spent a quarter of a million euro on a weekend. Private jet there from Dubai to Abito, 65k euro, private jet back, table, boom, dumb, 250k euro. So to me, it's not really considered all the money. In fact, to me, it's why did I sell so many Bitcoin to diversify my wealth?

SPEAKER_02 4:29

Why? What what was your what was your lowest price you bought in at?

SPEAKER_00 4:32

It's got to be less than a grand from memory, but there have been two um particular events where I consciously bought a lot, which would be COVID and also 2022, when the price went down to 16,000.

SPEAKER_02 4:45

So I first bought in COVID myself. Um, I want to say my first price was about 24 USD, 24k USD. And I think after buying it, I think it dipped off to about 18k. Uh yeah, because my first buy price, although it was lower, it was never my lowest buy price. But yeah, I mean, um, but but but even that price then, which felt high to everybody else, it's it feels so cheap, so cheap.

SPEAKER_00 5:09

I have never had a consistent recurring monthly revenue that would be considered impressive as opposed to all of the Diginomads here in Bali that say I'm making 100k a month in Bali. I've never been like that. Even my shop right now, which I think it's got to be top five, it's got to be top five. And even with my coaching here, if I look at that, even on the best month in the last 24 months, it's not 100k. All of the money comes from reinvestment, being a capital investor that has one trait that so many kids my age don't have patience. To me, to us, to the packages, when you were to buy a plot of land, you're supposed to buy that land to give it to your kids. That's a 30-year-plus investment. So to us, to the packages, to hold Bitcoin for 10 years is not exactly a long time, it's the norm. But for whatever reason, this TikTok generation, it's like they can't wait at all for anything.

SPEAKER_02 6:16

Have you always been a patient person, though? Yeah, okay. Because I mean, I'm completely opposite. I mean, listen, I I'm I'm getting more patient now. Uh, I mean, I'm I'm older than you, I'm 45. Uh, and if I look, look, if I look back at my last, let's say, 25, 30 years of successes and failures, uh, you know, I've made some reasonably catastrophic mistakes, but I feel like if I had to simplify it down to one simple answer, it would be lack of patience or or inability to delay gratification, you know, whether that is because I was wanting to cut corners in a way I probably shouldn't have cut corners or in a way that I was just so excited about spending some money today. You talk about, let's say, selling Bitcoin at some of those cheaper prices if you still had them now. I look at things going back at, let's say, being 23, 24, 25, thinking I go and spend this 10k. And by the way, 10k 20 years ago was, you know, with some fucking money. Um, spending 10k to have a wild night out with some girls or 25k for a weekend or something. And if I'd have had that to reinvest, and then what I've obviously realized as I got older is all these girls who were chasing at 25 are more interested in the guy who's 35, 40, 45, anyway. I could have I could have avoided losing the money, not needed to waste time chase them and had triple, triple or quadruple compound and

Illness, Sobriety, And Focus

SPEAKER_02 7:30

uh and be so much better off today.

SPEAKER_00 7:32

Sure. I think if I didn't get really sick, I'd have probably gone down that route because every time I drank alcohol, which I love to do, I love to party, my inhibitions would get to the point where within that day or days uh leading after, I would spend an exorbitant amount of money as opposed to if I was sober. But for whatever reason, fate, whatever you want to call it, I got really sick in Thailand, and then I just couldn't digest anything for like six years, and alcohol was just not on the menu. It was just disrupting my digestion, and so I had nothing else to do but sit inside and read and work for about six years. How long? How old were you? How long was this? Uh the first time I got really sick was in Thailand in Potato 2021. No, 2011. I was 21. So that's what's that 15 years ago. And when I mean I got sick, I got real sick. As in, I went to Thailand to bodybuild, and I must have gained, I don't know, 15 odd kilos. I had lost it all and more within three weeks of coming home. Just, you know, on the shitter, vomiting for months, literally months, not weeks, not days. Something had obviously infected my digestive system, a parasite, and I didn't get it checked out. Yeah, you're 20 odd years old, you're like, ah, don't worry about it. But after that, I was left with somewhat of a post-infection IBS, meaning even though I didn't have the runs anymore, I would always have digestive issues. It felt as if uh my digestive system was paralyzed, and so I stopped partying because of that. I didn't stop partying because I thought, oh, I better back off the alcohol and drugs now. I just couldn't. I didn't have the energy to as well. When you have those digestive symptoms, by the time it gets to 9 p.m., you're like, I'm fucked. So I have to kind of thank whatever that was.

SPEAKER_02 9:23

Are you fully sober now? Do you ever drink alcohol? Never. How long's that been?

SPEAKER_00 9:29

I can't remember the last time I had a drink, but it's not that I restrict myself, I just don't have an interest in drinking anymore. So if I wanted to drink, I would drink. But for me, for me, the cost to benefit with alcohol just isn't there. Meaning, alcohol for me is a big stimulant. And I learned recently that there is this small percentage of the population that genuinely are stimulated from alcohol. Alcohol for me was all I needed to go out if I was tired. Whereas to some people, it winds them down. Mine's the opposite. I'll get social and then, yes, if I drink two, three in, then I want to layer that with stimulants. So it's kind of it goes hand in hand, but I just don't have an interest anymore. And I think it's because I like waking up feeling good. Whereas I got made to drink and they don't have the hangovers that I do.

SPEAKER_02 10:24

Yeah, I mean, I I've never listened, I I I like red wine. I mean, that's that's advice, not real advice. I just like like red wine, like a bit of rum. Uh, but I can very much take it or leave it. And if I'm drunk, I'm drunk because uh I've enjoyed drinking too much red wine, if that makes sense, as opposed to going, I want to go out and get fucked up tonight. And never ever, never when I was 18 did I go, I want to go and get fucked up tonight. Uh so um, I mean, I I always feel better if I've not had it the night before, but then I I know I can take it or leave it, so it's never something that I would ever see, you know, cutting from my life. But that said I, you know, I can see the benefits of of having less of it.

SPEAKER_00 11:01

Yeah, I was a binge drinker. I never really liked the taste of alcohol. I liked being drunk. And I liked being drunk to socialize. I never liked being drunk by myself or with a small group of boys. It was to go out and to chase tau, basically. So when I stopped doing that, the alcohol stopped. Because I never had a craving for alcohol. I had a craving for partying, you know. Whereas marijuana, that was more of a I'll do this at home by myself thing. And I stopped that again because it turned on me. If honestly, if marijuana still felt as good as it did as I was a teenager, if alcohol was something that didn't affect me and I like to party, I'd still do it. I don't have a moral compass around those who drink and don't drink, you know. But you know, for most guys, once once they reach mid-30s, if they enjoy their training, their boxing, it's pretty hard to do both. Some guys can. There are there are freaks out there. There are freaks I know personally who are lean, they drink, they go to the gym the next day, they do it all, and they beat everyone up, and they still drink.

SPEAKER_02 12:09

But like you say, that it's those utter freak examples, like like you know, like Elon Musk is a freak example of of business and money. It's not something the rest of the world can uh can can model themselves

Building A Tattoo Shop In Bali

SPEAKER_02 12:20

on.

SPEAKER_00 12:20

Correct.

SPEAKER_02 12:21

Well, uh talking about money and entrepreneurship, going back to that 2015 and um and before, so you'll have been so 2015, you'll have been what about 2024, something like that?

SPEAKER_00 12:31

Yeah, 24. I was here in Bali then too, so that's 11 years ago.

SPEAKER_02 12:35

And so so what what got you into Bitcoin? And I guess what where was your knowledge? You were bricklaying back then, were you or did you move you'd moved on?

SPEAKER_00 12:42

I had already had my first shop here in 2015.

SPEAKER_02 12:44

So the entrepreneurial journey is working as a bricklayer and then let finish that to do the tattoo studio is the first thing.

SPEAKER_00 12:53

Um, I wouldn't say I wanted to open up a tattoo studio. I just had a friend that had a tattoo studio in Perth, and we knew it was profitable because you couldn't open a tattoo studio in Perth without having either a gang member or someone to protect you. So, why would a gang member protect a tattoo shop? Why would a gang member protect a strip club or a brothel? Because it's profitable. That's why they protect industries that are profitable. But over in Bali, I noticed there was no gang influence. It made perfect sense. And also, when we came to Bali back in 2015, a lot of people, a lot of kids growing up don't know this. But paid ads were a thing. I believe that I was one of the first people to experiment with paid ads here in Bali with tattoo shops, and it was cheap as fuck.

SPEAKER_01 13:38

That's how you generated your your first plants back then.

SPEAKER_00 13:41

We we were booked before we opened, as in we were putting the finishing touchings on the shop, and people thought we were open, and we had tattoos the next day. So it wasn't even a thing, but you have to rewind to Bali back then to Semanyak on Yellung Raya, where Bali was going through this boom stage, and Semignac was the thing. Changgu wasn't even a thing. I would have to ride my scooter to go surf Echo Beach, and it was all rice fields. It's hard to explain. You're going through all rice fields, none of that that we see today was there, none of it, even back then. So did you see it as a better place back then? Look, for me, the best was COVID. Just no, sorry, just after COVID. Now it does feel like there's overdevelopment and we're losing some of that nature in Changgu. But like always in Bali, that wave will shift over to Sesei. Well, that's a thing. I mean, you know, and we'll have that vibe again where we still have the nature, but then the cafe and the gym. Because I don't want it to be too desolate that there's no gym, no cafe. I don't I'm not into that. I've surfed in Sumatra. I don't want to live in that sort of remoteness. Um, there's a balance, but now I think Changgu has seen a little bit too much.

SPEAKER_02 15:02

So that first tattoo shop that opened, how how many have there been until uh until Chang? It's called Changgu Inc Club, you're Changgu Inc Club now.

SPEAKER_00 15:09

Um how many has there been, and how many partners were there, and how many disputes and issues and government changes and regulations? Man, I can't even remember. I can't even remember. Too many, and then also being in COVID, and you've got to pay for staff, you've got to help out your partner who doesn't have a job back home, and it's just closed. For two years, it's just closed.

SPEAKER_02 15:34

Well, what sets one tattoo shop apart from another? Because I mean, listen, obviously, I have a few tattoos. I'm a fan of fan of tech, you know, fan of tattoos, don't know anything about the shops or the business, but I guess you know, for me as a customer, what do I want? I want a clean shop and an artist who I know is gonna do what's uh you know what they say they're gonna do. Uh, I mean, in terms of the the quantity of stores, I mean it seems white wildly oversaturated, but then again, they seem to be opening more and more. I mean, I mean, is it saturated and what what what you know what makes one better than another? What makes you more profitable than the next man?

SPEAKER_00 16:07

Honestly, if you have a look at Google and the Google reviews, now you're starting to see other shops um take note of getting Google reviews. But when we first opened up Chenggu Inclub, I just looked on Google Maps and I looked over at my partner and I was like, bro, why are these people not focused on reviews? Basic shit. So reviews, location. Yeah, there are a lot of tattoo shops here in Bali, but how many of them are tucked in the in the middle of nowhere? Location is important, location is half the battle. If you see where we are, yours is a killer location, it's next to Ammo Spar, it's at this intersection between four roads. So there's location, there's the basic shit, like getting Google reviews, cleanliness, which you'd think would be easy, but it's not. It gets to the point where I think to myself, I might walk into a tattoo shop and then I see a dusty air company like a split system unit, and I think, oh bro, really? That is a 20-minute job that you could just clean that air comp or just paint that patch in the corner, it's making it look dirty, it's making the shop look dirty. And then people don't do it. So if I'm honest, there isn't that much competition, would be the first thing. So if you if you actually look at the data on where you're what your actual competition is, I mean, there's definitely a few, but it's not as many as there are registered tattoo shops. Um the other one is scale. If you have a three-bed tattoo shop, it doesn't matter how good it is. I mean, there's just not enough volume there. So you want at least 10 beds, preferably 20.

SPEAKER_01 17:49

Really?

SPEAKER_00 17:50

Yeah, I mean, if you have a three-bed tattoo shop, even if you're booked out, you're limited there by scale.

SPEAKER_02 17:56

And how let's say beholden, if that's the word, to the artists are you? Because again, as a as a layman, to me, it feels that I mean, you're obviously the things you say like cleanliness and Google reviews and stuff, kind of yeah, that's all very important. But ultimately, I want I want a great artist who's gonna you know gonna make something good. I mean, how followed are the artists or celebrity-fied are the artists, you know. I mean, do they have you buy the balls if they want to go work somewhere else?

SPEAKER_00 18:23

If you want those artists to work in your shop, yes. But if you're like us and you are focused on simple tattoos that doesn't require a tattoo artist, just a tattooist, then not so much. Now that we have the power, so to speak, and I'm putting that in air quotes, artists will message us because we have the platform. But in the earlier days, you don't have the platform, so yes, they can definitely dictate um what commission they're going to get. There are just artists out there that they'll get 70%. There are those guys, we've dealt with those guys. Some of them are easy to deal with, others have an ego, as you'd expect. They're that good.

SPEAKER_01 19:06

Do they bring the clients with them as well? Do they not? Oh, really? They think that it's not like they have a following.

SPEAKER_00 19:11

No, they don't. These artists can be completely self-sufficient just working around town, whether it be at someone's home or going from shop to shop, andor they are leading losers in a shop. So, for example, let's say I have a famous artist and which we don't do this, by the way, anymore. But if I have a famous artist and I give him a commission that we actually lose money or break even, that just might help with brand awareness at the shop, leading losers, so to speak. But if you have too many of them, I mean your shop looks really good, but you're not making any money. Um, there is somewhat of an unofficial council. And so the price is relatively the same. This artist will get the same commission here and there, give or take 5%. But after a while, if you have the platform, artists will stay with you because they have work. So it's it's it's got to be win-win. There's no kind of, you know, the owner is dominating the artist, the artist dominating the owner. Eventually, the market balances itself out that any shops that are too greedy or artists that are too greedy won't have work. We

Regulation Risks For Foreign Owners

SPEAKER_00 20:17

are you gonna vote for more? I assem you have plans to do so, but there are a few things pending within government. You live here in Bali, so you understand that uh the way you say it is important because Indonesia, respect to them, is a sovereign nation. So owning property for the most part, you don't own the property, and it can be the same in certain industry types. And we're going through somewhat of a renaissance of the Indonesian government taking back their sovereignty for their citizens, and so you have to be pretty careful about how you set up a business. And there may actually be businesses that you technically don't own and you're an employee of. It's always kind of been that way in the tattoo industry, but lately in the last few weeks, it's been getting uh more strict. And so I have to sit down with an accountant and have a look at how we can structure this thing because the days of just owning your shop with your PMAs, it's it's it's over, I think. Um and and it doesn't mean you can't benefit from it, but you just have to keep in mind that technically, legally, you have less power as a foreigner now than you did before. And um for some people that's a deal breaker if they want to scale. For other people, they they're okay with that. Um but I I just see that there are a lot of signs lately in the real estate market with the way the government is regulating businesses here. That I just I want people to take a breather and understand it's not Dubai, it's not Thailand.

SPEAKER_02 21:50

Um it it seems an absolute minefield, I guess a minefield with no no rules, rhyme, or reason. You know, it it it depends, you know, which person wakes up what wakes up on the right day. I mean, when I I mean, I've been coming in now for two or three years when I kind of first moved here six or seven months ago. My intention was to probably spend two or three months getting properly acclimatized and then getting stuck into some business here. But the I think the more acclimatized I got, the more I realized I don't want to do any business. I mean, listen, I love it to death here. Love my life here, love my lifestyle of people and everything. But trying to do any business, trying to get a straight answer on anything, it's just fucking impossible. I think, you know what? I've got enough to keep me busy elsewhere. Maybe I'll I'll make my money elsewhere and uh and enjoy spending it on a on a 10x leverage here because uh because they can get through a day on a hundred bucks instead of needing a thousand dollars just to get to breakfast in Dubai.

SPEAKER_00 22:40

Yeah, yeah, I think a lot of people coming to Bali or the people that live in Bali that talk it up in every way, shape, and form, a lot of these people, no disrespect, are either A, not making enough money for the government to take a look at them, B, they're just getting lucky, or C, they're acting informally. And informally is another word for illegally. And we know a lot of businesses operate informally here, you know. But if you're an influencer and you're a foreigner and you're speaking about your business and you eventually become popular, well, there'll be eyes on you. So there are people here that I know that have been operating informally for years, they do their thing, they make a you know a few grand a week, but this is not my intention. If I'm going to scale here, I need to know where I'm positioned in the company, what power I have, what powers I don't have. So until then, no, there is no intention of scaling anything here, which is a shame because there are many such people like me, with capital like me and more, that want to come to Bali. They love living here, but they're wise investors and they're used to the common law in Dubai andor Australia, and they look at this and they think this is a mess.

SPEAKER_02 23:51

You

Partnership Rules That Prevent Chaos

SPEAKER_02 23:52

mentioned uh you mentioned a minute ago about having uh um how many partnership arguments, or forget what the words are. Talk to me about partners. Uh, you know, is it so it sounds like something you've had problems with? You know, what what are things that have gone wrong in partnerships for you? Would you would you do them again? Do you advise people to get partners?

SPEAKER_00 24:11

I like this chat because I've had to sit with it when you lose a lot of money and/or you lose a friendship, which is what happens, of course. If I could go back in time, I would ensure that if I was to partner with someone, the roles at the company are clearly outlined. And there is one person that is the CEO. There is one person that has the final say. We can review that person's performance after such time to change the role. But if we as partners, let's say it's me and Bob, if we agree that Bob is CEO, even if I disagree with Bob for that period of time that we've agreed for him to be CEO, it's his way or the highway. I want someone to be a dictator at the business. But when you've got two strong personalities and you haven't clearly outlined roles, it's a it's a recipe for a disaster waiting to happen.

SPEAKER_02 25:05

I think partnership is probably a word that's maybe confusing is the wrong word, but but let's say misleading into what that ultimately leads to so much to so many problems. Because I think you know, partnership, you know, a partner, it's a very emotional word, isn't it? I think it's it's emotional, it's psychological, and and it has that 50-50 split mentality on everything. But I think ultimately the reality is, you know, like you were saying, if if Bob's the CEO, I think you you know we need to remove the word partnership from these conversations. And so it's a business, and there are shareholders and there are directors. We may be a 50-50 shareholder, we may be a 90-10 shareholder. Um, but you know, somebody is owning shares, somebody is is is doing jobs, and also those jobs, just like in any business where if you weren't partners, they need to be complementary skill sets or or things that you know positively leverage each other. You hear so many stories of people who would, I'll never do a partnership, it's the worst thing, you should do everything on your own. And obviously, many other people are saying that's the best, it's the best thing that happened. You know, we we we we bring we bring out the best in each other, but like anything in life, I guess, until these things have gone wrong, you never really get to identify where the things are that did go wrong. I would rather do something on my own. I'm not averse to having a partnership as long as you say the rules are clear from the clear from the outset and and different people bring different things to the party.

SPEAKER_00 26:24

Yeah, it's a nuanced conversation, but I think as long as roles are clearly defined, all weasel words are removed from that criteria. So there's no we work hard. This is bad. There's Bob works 40 hours per week on task X and B. Bob does not do task Z. Daniel does task Z for 20 hours per week. In addition, Daniel provides 100% of the capital for this business. We don't argue over who's working harder. You know, these sorts of emotional, subjective words are removed from the conversation. I'm very adamant when it comes to clear objective language because for whatever reason, westies are more emotional than my Eastern European counterparts, and they get into this I put so much blood, sweat, and tears into this business. And I'm like, bro, that's not business. Business is business. What did we agree on in the beginning? Okay, you got a bad deal. You made a bad deal. Don't blame me for your deal making skills. And so I just think there's no possible way that I don't end up in a massive, you know, friendship-ending argument unless roles are clearly defined. But if one is able to, then partnerships can not only work, you'll typically multiply your wealth faster because you've got a team. I mean, that's why Jeff Bezos has a team. There's a reason for it. Um, but I haven't um I haven't figured that one out yet either.

SPEAKER_02 28:07

You partner on the tattoo shops, you're your brother now, isn't it? Yeah, now good or bad for working with family members.

SPEAKER_00 28:13

Good now. Good now. It's when you have a brother who also has very similar traits to you, it can go one of two ways. So if you both have that ego and you're both butting heads, then sure. But if you both have that self-awareness to understand what you're doing, you can sort of also like heal really quick too, because you don't use both the same. So me and my brother were very similar in these ways, the way that we work, and we're able to uh resolve our differences very quickly. And now, because we have clearly defined roles, there is no argument. I'm not what I'm saying is I'm not allowed to argue. I'm not I'm not allowed to. It's not my role because he's just he's the CEO, he's the CEO, so I don't have that power. So I can chuck a tantrum all I want, but it's like there it is. And I must say this someone like me, who always in the past thought he was right, when my brother does something that I'm sure of I'm sure of at the time is the wrong thing to do, but then his thing that he he implements works really good, it's a reminder that you don't know everything. There might be someone else out there that you can either partner with that's better than you, or even hire that's better than you. I've met um one or two guys over time, employees, that have suggested things that I was against, and then it was implemented against my own you know wishes, and then it worked out. But um my brother's a clever lad, you know, the shop wouldn't be there without him.

SPEAKER_02 29:49

So let's uh let's go back to the back to the Bitcoin. So

Bitcoin Origin Story And Belief

SPEAKER_02 29:53

you were buying buying it from 2015. Um you're saying about a thousand bucks or something or something or something it was back then. What what got you into it? You know, where did your knowledge and your belief for it come from? Because typically you find that um owners of Bitcoin, you know, that they're very passionate at yeah, they're passionate owners. It's not like someone, oh I've got some Euros, and then you passionately uh extol the virtues of the Euro, you know, the Euro committee. I mean, Bitcoin buyers are you know knowledgeable, passionate people.

SPEAKER_00 30:23

Drugs, the dark web. So I would party a lot and I would use cocaine too, but usually this cocaine was laced with amphetamines or meth. That was Perth for you. And then afterwards I'd stay up and I'd get really anxious, like really anxious. And so one night my friend said, take this, you'll be fine. And I never was into downers, I was just one of those guys, don't, that's heroin. But he gave me a Xanax, and my anxiety went away instantly. In fact, I was able to continue party, and the only way to get these Xanax, this particular type, was on the dark web. And my friend was, I wouldn't say he was a nerd, but he understood Linux and how to order things on the dark web. That was my first exposure to Bitcoin, and in fact, from memory, it's even earlier than 2015, where you can imagine how many bitcoins were in his possession to buy 10 Xanax. They would come in the mouth, no one would care. And that was first exposure to Bitcoin, but I wasn't passionate about then. I wasn't even passionate in 2015.

SPEAKER_02 31:26

How did people you know back then? I mean, did you consider bitcoins in its in its dollar equivalent? Do you know what I mean? Uh I guess what I mean. Like when you were buying a Xanax for a Bitcoin or whatever. I mean, did you did you think in terms of a dot one Bitcoin is worth 70 cents? It wasn't like that, it was just like an arbitrary thing, really.

SPEAKER_00 31:46

Yep. When I became sort of passionate about Bitcoin, I remember this day exactly how it happened because I was driving from a surf in Leighton Beach. Sometimes it would turn it on in the winter, very rarely. And then as I'm driving home, my friend goes, Have you seen Bitcoin lately, bro? Because my friend was more into it than me. I was like, I don't know. He's like, Look at the price. And he shows me on Google the AUD to Bitcoin conversion. And I said, Bro, it's wrong. There's no way. I hadn't been checking it. I wasn't a big social media guy. In fact, this social media that you see, I deleted it once and I only reopened it about a year ago. So I wasn't really plugged into the world. And in 2015, a lot of people my age weren't really plugged in. So I hadn't been checking the price. There's no apps at the time like CoinMarketCap where you're scrolling to check the price. And the price had gone up like a few thousand. And I had luckily had some bitcoins. That was my first, like, what the fuck? This thing can make us money.

SPEAKER_02 32:49

This is a complete accident. You're not in any intelligence credit here.

SPEAKER_00 32:53

You have zero. Zero. Don't get me wrong, I was grazing on macroeconomics and politics and gold and silver and bitcoins a hedge against inflation. Yeah, grazing, but it's not to the degree where I can discuss it now. Once Safadina Morse, shout out to you, bro, who I speak to on the occasion. I had a consult call with him. Once he released the Bitcoin standard, that's when it all clicked to me. When I read his book, and that's what 2018-ish or something like that. And the reason that book clicked to me is because for whatever reason, I was doing the whole how the money machine works. I started with Ray Dalio's YouTube video. You know the one? No, but I know I've read the um I've read the Principles book. I know, right? Yeah. It's like that. He makes an interactive YouTube video. I start there, then you get into bonds and the US government and the central bank, and you go down that rabbit hole that we all go through about how money actually works. For whatever reason, the Bitcoin standard comes out and just wedges imperfectly there. And then it just clicked. To me, to me, it didn't take me a thousand hours to think Bitcoin was a good idea. Now, being the anti-establishment guy that I am, that a lot of Australians are, the premise of Bitcoin is uh stick it to the big guys, stick it to the guys in the US, the central bank. So for me, it lines up really well. I was already very used to breaking overreaching nanny laws. It's fucking illegal to have anabolic steroids, you've got to get a COVID vaccine. All of these laws to me just were ridiculous. It was like there's no part of me that felt bad to break those laws. Zero. Just don't get caught. So using steroids is a crime in Australia. I try to explain this to people around the world, and I was into bodybuilding back then. So you've got to break the law to build muscle. You had to get the covert jab. You had to get it, otherwise, you couldn't function in Australia. You couldn't leave a five-kilometer radius, and I wasn't doing. So for me, the idea of Bitcoin was very much uh being your the sovereign you, because I figured if I'm going to be this guy that's continually speaking out, continually breaking these nanny laws, what am I going to do? Get real estate in Australia. One day I say the wrong thing and then they take it from me. I even had that conversation with my friend, and now it's a thing. That's an actual thing in the UK. You can't say certain things. You will go to jail. And so if you go to jail and they threaten you with your assets and you've got sovereign Bitcoin, well, it makes perfect sense. And this is why I think that a lot of live streamers that have controversial views will have exposure to Bitcoin because they know they know they can be debanked. I'm well aware of it.

SPEAKER_02 35:58

Is it only Bitcoin that is that is that good for, let's say, sovereignty or are are many of the other are many of the other coins as useful?

SPEAKER_00 36:07

I want to say Monero and Zcash, but they just don't quite have the market cap. So you never know if that network is sustained, as well as the fact that because of the tokenomics, the other benefit to Bitcoin obviously is that number go up. So it's not only a sovereign savings account, you're increasing your wealth, or at least you expect to. So there's a dual benefit there with Bitcoin. Um, as far as the altcoins go, which we can have a lengthy discussion about, they resemble the US dollar more than they do Bitcoin to me. So even though it's all crypto, typically the way I know someone is educated in Bitcoin or not is when they say crypto, because they bucket F, Bitcoin, and Solana in the same conversation, and they're very different.

SPEAKER_02 36:53

What would your view on on the USDT or a stable coin be?

Stablecoins, Banking Freezes, And Dubai

SPEAKER_02 36:58

Uh I guess well, more from that protection against against nanny state, because uh you know the reality is when I say you can't spend your Bitcoin. I mean you can spend your Bitcoin, yeah, but but it you you you typically would need to convert the Bitcoin into something stable, or you might not want to want to sell during the pizza and troughs. So I mean I mean my my view would be let's say exposure, you might not need the exposure, but you're probably gonna need a stable coin in your life at some point. But would you would would you hold it?

SPEAKER_00 37:26

USDT is useful, but it can be frozen. Yes. So USDT is like keeping money in a bank account. Very much the same. I'm not saying it's not useful.

SPEAKER_02 37:36

Have you known it? I mean, obviously, I know it gets frozen. I read the higher profile stories, but have you have you ever known it get frozen in in your real life?

SPEAKER_00 37:46

Not any small case. You see some big cases like fraud cases, multiple millions, but massive drug cases, whatever. Yeah, but even then it's unlikely unless a massive organization is onto it, because it will break the model of these stablecoin companies, you know, because the whole idea of having a stable coin and not having US dollars in a bank account is so it can be more sovereign. You're on the spectrum of more sovereign. So why would a lot of people want to hold USDT and not US dollars? Because they're likely doing something that their government doesn't like. It's not a discussion about morals or ethics. I I I've told people many times, I don't care what you do, as long as you don't harm innocent kids or you're harming innocent people. But I'm sure there is a law in your country that you need to get away from, and I'm happy you do. And then Western people, they often think of just uh let's say, let's say it's someone I'm trying to think, they're buying drugs on the weekend. That's not really an issue for someone in China. In China, it's the CCP doesn't want you to get too rich or to move money here. In South America, it's the government doesn't give anyone a bank account if they don't meet certain criteria. So depending on where you are in the world, Africa, South America, China, Russia, there are other use cases for stable coins, obviously quite intimate for us. Russians, the reason they had to get stable coins is because their banks are sanctioned all around the world. The card don't work. So when you come to Bali, a lot of the reason why Russians are converting their USDT on the Tron network to Indonesian Rapia is because that's the only way they could get their money out. There are different conversations depending on where you live, but obviously the audience being from the UK or Canada or the USA, they don't really see the use case for crypto because the reality is our banking system is really good, especially in Australia. There is very little need for USDT or or Bitcoin in general, unless you're an investor.

SPEAKER_02 39:55

Well, it's it's good, it's good till it's not good. I mean, I I mean I I can't speak for Australian banking, but whilst whilst a UK banking system you know works in that you know you could you press some money from A to B and it's quick and it's fast, and it very often is without problem, I would say that you know it's getting more and more problematic to open a bank account, to keep a bank account, to have control over your money, you know, depending on what industries you're in. And I'm not talking about you know, even let's say being involved in a crypto industry or selling peptides or anything that you know, let's say is is hovering around grey.

SPEAKER_00 40:31

Illegal in Australia, another way.

SPEAKER_02 40:33

You can't do that. But I'm talking, for example, I my core space is um is raising investment. So, you know, just the act of raising investment from people, most of the banks don't want to want to receive that money. Then it's well, it's come from there, so they don't want it to go out in that way. You know, we've had businesses on you know, three hours before the payroll's due, and something happens, I don't know, a hundred grand payment lands in from a completely legitimate source into a bank account that would normally only receive 10 grand payments. And rather than them picking up the phone or sending the email to say, hey, what is this hundred grand payment? Can you send me the invoice? Can you do something? And by the way, you've got you've got 24 hours to do, it's freeze, you can't speak to anyone, we'll deal with it in 30 days. By the way, I've got 80 staff to pay. Oh, well, we don't give a fuck. Uh, so I I I I think you know, no matter what country you live in, no matter how um let's say first world your banking systems are, for me, the case for for for crypto, and I do put it in the in the bucket there, just saying you know, the case for anything crypto related, just get stronger and stronger by the day.

SPEAKER_00 41:38

Yeah, it's a good point. Again, UK, Canada, USA, Australia. We're talking about the two strictest here, or three, Canada, UK, Australia. Over there in Dubai, this sort of happening is less likely, as well as the fact that you are allowed to transact in Bitcoin. So you have the option. Um, signing up to Stripe for my online coaching thing, I figured at Stripe, I'm gonna have issues because my services are very vague, and there was a lot of money coming in in the first month. No problem, because I'm over there at the UAE. But keep in mind the UAE is not on a gray list any longer. Monaco is, Dubai is not. So I think that being banked over there in Dubai, having a corporation over there in Dubai, you do get the best of both worlds where it's it's safe, it's not going to get frozen like a potential USDT does or lose value like another crypto, but it also isn't as restrictive as a West Bank, a Westpac in Australia or Barclays as you referred to. Because yeah, my guys in Australia, they continue to show me things that are just wild. I think, bro, what if you go traveling and your card gets blocked? He's like, it happens. Now we're talking about life or death. What if you have to pay for a surgery for a kid? Like you said, payroll. Now we're getting to the point where these nanny states have semi-automated their systems to flag everything and anything. And also

Testosterone, Steroids, And Heart Risk

SPEAKER_00 43:03

it's sort of like you're guilty until proven innocent, isn't it? That's what it is now.

SPEAKER_02 43:09

You mentioned anabolic steroids a couple of times, and um uh I mean I I know you're a uh you know a big advocate for that. You you you had a podcast in that space as well, didn't you, for a period of time?

SPEAKER_00 43:20

I'm not an advocate for using them, but I used to be interested in using them. I mean, if you use them and you expect to live longer, you're probably not. But if you use them as a strength athlete, you will get stronger, and I don't use them anymore.

SPEAKER_02 43:35

So what about let's say all of that family of peptides and uh uh I guess and any of the injectable health things that are talked about now? You you you into it all?

SPEAKER_00 43:46

Some I'll tell you what I take. So I take 50 milligrams of testosterone three times a week. Testosterone is not an anabolic androgenic steroid, the anabolic steroids or the AAS are cousins of testosterone. It's a little bit semantics, it's the same thing. But the moment you take even testosterone, a dose of it that exceeds what your body could naturally physiologically produce, you're basically juicing. When you're juicing, although you might get bigger and leaner, the problems start to happen. So there is a sweet spot. The only reason I take that testosterone now is because my body doesn't produce natural testosterone anymore because of the past use of anabolic steroids. However, if I didn't have to, I wouldn't take anything.

SPEAKER_02 44:33

So do you therefore do you therefore regret taking them of old for for still needing to use them now?

SPEAKER_00 44:39

I wouldn't say I regret it because at the time it was good, it was fun, but it's it's inconvenient. No one wants to inject themselves unless I don't know if you enjoy injecting yourself, but I don't want to.

SPEAKER_01 44:52

Horrible, horrible atesturms.

SPEAKER_00 44:54

Yeah, it's just it's not fun, but you've got to do it. Uh, there are some medications and some peptides on the horizon that I might consider using. For the most part, um, unless you have a very specific goal, it it's it's pretty useless to me. The the only other drug that I'm considering using is what's known as a PCSK9 inhibitor. It lowers APOB, which is LDL, and I believe there's no hot topic of debate.

SPEAKER_02 45:22

I think that so what is all I'm not familiar with any of those initials.

SPEAKER_00 45:26

This is your pipe that goes to your heart, plaque builds up, you have a heart attack, which is the leading killer in men our age. And if the leading killer in men our age can be prevented by a medication, then I'd consider taking that. Outside of that medication, there is nothing that I would consider using personally.

SPEAKER_02 45:48

You're not into any of the peptide stats that everyone raves about online.

SPEAKER_00 45:52

For some people, yeah. If if you're really fat, retatrotide is looking good right now. But if you're not really fat, I mean, why would you use it? It's not side effect free. And in many cases, it's horrible. There are a lot of people that have even used one milligram a week, not even, and they just you know have digestive issues or they feel nauseous. For me, I don't need it. There's no metric that I test on my body that says I need retatritite unless I'm looking to um refine things cosmetically. Look leaner to look better. Yeah, you could take retatritite, you could take anabolic steroids, you'll look better. I don't know if you'll feel better. Um, for me, I'm I'm past that. My podcast for anabolic steroids was not for me, it was for the audience that want to use anabolic steroids. And a lot of the people in my audience were sports people. I mean, you you're just not winning any high-end sporting event in say boxing or wrestling without gear. You're just not. It's like there's there's no one that is winning those events without gear. They might tell you they are because they can't tell you that they're on it, because then they won't be able to get the fight. But everyone in the scene knows that's bullshit. Everyone's taking something.

SPEAKER_02 47:10

And how how do they get away with it? Just because easy. The prom the promoters turn a blind eye and don't test them, or there's there's ways to get around the testing.

SPEAKER_00 47:18

The testing is designed so you can beat it. So when you have a look at even Usada, it's so easy to beat. I had podcasts with Broderick Chavez that specifically step by step outline how to beat that test. And you know, everyone knew this. Everyone's seen the documentary Icarus on Netflix. It's sort of this, you know, known thing in the scene. So yeah, I would speak to that. And it was good fun. I mean, I love sport, I love being a fan, but I'm I'm past that now. You know, I'm I'm 36 in August, and once you start getting into your mid-30s, if you continue to take these drugs and you get that LVH, which is a larger part, a larger left ventricular, a bit of scarring, I mean, you're at a real risk of dying from a heart attack. I know people personally that have had heart attacks. Yes, it happens less than people that party. I mean, if you have the cohort of drinkers versus the cohort of anabolic steroid takers, the drinker guys are gonna be dying a lot more than the steroid guys, but I'd rather not die of either.

SPEAKER_02 48:26

We just and for the heart attacks, we're just talking about the anabolic steroids here or the testosterone as well.

SPEAKER_00 48:31

Both, because if you take a dose of testosterone too high, two things will happen. Typically, LDL does go higher when you take even a higher dose of testosterone in a lot of people. It's not good for ASCVD. Also, because you take more gear, that increased androgen load makes you bigger. When you're bigger, you're just more at risk of a heart attack because you're holding more tissue. That's why you don't see people that are 100 years old that are 150 kilos jacked. At some point, your organs just fail. It's too much to deal with, is what I'm saying. And not just your heart, but also your kidneys. Kidneys actually typically fall off before the cardiovascular system, even though they're intertwined, right? So just being bigger in general isn't necessarily going to lead to a longer and better life. Most of the guys you'll meet who are massive are just tired all the time. It's too big. Even at 100 kilos right now, and I'm not 100 kilos because I want to be, I'm 100 kilos because I love eating. I wish I was 85 kilos. Even at 100 either. Well, redder, redder might be an option for me, but right now, because I enjoy my life, I enjoy my pizzas and my gelato, I'm at that that point where I'm not considering it. But should willpower not be enough one day, and red is the only thing to save my life, yeah, I would I would consider it. Because weight control in general is important. You can be really lean, but if you're 110 kilo at 5, 10, 5'11, I mean, it's likely your blood pressure is high, or you have to take a medication for it. The the fact of the matter is, bigger guys die earlier, bigger guys are less energetic, bigger guys suffer more sleep issues. Being bigger is is a problem for so many guys. It's the truth.

SPEAKER_02 50:21

What's your sporting regime now? I see you, I see you're boxing on Insta.

SPEAKER_00 50:26

I I'll do an hour of high-intensity work a week. So that could be sparring, bag, shadow boxing, and really just trying to leave it all out there. And maybe not when we're sparring, but just me at my weight moving around, tag sparring is me leaving it all out there. And then weights, try and get to the gym to do, let's say, 70 sets a week, whether that be every day or three times a week, 70 sets. So let's say most people can do that in three to 70 sets across all body parts, you know. Maybe there's let's say there's 10 main body parts, seven sets on each. Yeah. And that's that's about as much weight training as I do, and then the long, slow cardio, three hours a week. But I don't always stick to that. If I'm jet lagged like I am now, I'll just do half of that. When I'm in routine, that is where I like to be. An hour of high intensity stuff, sort of high intensity, let's say sparring and bag work, three hours of zone two cardio, the light cardio, and then the 70 sets per week. After that, I can't do any more without my health going down. Because remember, too much your health goes down too. Definitely.

Where To Draw The Law Line

SPEAKER_02 51:39

So a while ago we were talking when we started to talk about Bitcoin, you were talking about the nanny states and the and the and the rules or the laws that that you're that you're happy to break. Um and I I I agree with you. I mean in the principle, I don't know specifically what laws we're talking, talking, but you know, I am as I think many entrepreneurs are people who make our own rules and and and decide decide what laws we're happy to break. I'm sure I'm sure some people listening to this will just think, well, we're criminals, you know, our laws are laws, a law, you know, rules are there are there to be followed.

SPEAKER_00 52:12

Get a lawyer.

SPEAKER_02 52:14

But uh, where do you think the line does get drawn, or how do you draw that line? In that you know, do we, and I I say do we, you know, I know that sometimes I do. You know, you break one rule and it starts to desensitize you to the next and the next and the next. And at what point, at what point are you driving around with a rucksack full of heroin, you know, shooting shooting people?

SPEAKER_00 52:34

I'd like to think that applying a bit of common sense would be the end of the answer, but for some people, what's common sense to me is not to them.

SPEAKER_02 52:42

So we have to try and again clearly outline what that but do you know that I think this common sense flexes with your tolerance to risk that you know you you you break one rule and it's a small rule, but you don't get caught, and you then break a second rule, you don't get caught, and and and uh you know, ultimately you think, well, if I was in charge of this company or this city or this country, I'd have a whole different set of rules. Therefore, you know, I'm gonna go and let's take it to a slight extreme, use marijuana as an example, you know, so many people would would rationalise or have no issue with the use of marijuana. So then at what point do you you know is selling it okay? And then and then do you think, well, I've sold it without problem, and you know, like I mean, where the fuck do you draw the line?

SPEAKER_00 53:22

Well, I do appreciate my old dealer in Sydney. He was a marijuana enthusiast and he was really into it, the way that he would grow the sweet, and he would risk obviously like 10, 15 years or whatever in jail. But I don't I don't think I've ever been asked that question. So now I have to think about how to answer it. I'll just say this that's what lawyers are for to start off with. I wouldn't say I risk something that would be a 10 to 15 years in jail type of thing, but a big fine or deportation, yeah, I risk it. Like I just I just don't think about that stuff as well. So I just try to be a good person, what I think is a good person. But if there's a law that I think is ridiculous and really overreaching, I'll break it, even if 10,000 people tell me that I'm a bad guy. Because people in history have needed guys like me. Because guys like me, if there's enough of us, we'll change that law. Because how many laws over time were seen as normal and now they're ridiculous? Like common law in the Catholic Church, children could marry, I think it was 12 years old for females and 14 for boys. Is that normal? Because to me, that's not normal. If that was legal today, if little girls like my daughters could be married off at 12, I'd be like, fuck that law. I'm gonna create my own army around that law. So there were laws back then that to me are just disgusting. What about slavery? You know, but there were men who stood up, who spoke up, who risked their lives, who eventually changed those laws. So, where would society be without men like me, anyway? What are we gonna do? Just continue to let Australia and the UK go down this nanny path and have these leaders like Keir Starmer and Albanese actually convince the masses what they're doing is reasonable.

SPEAKER_02 55:14

He resigned today, didn't they?

SPEAKER_00 55:15

I saw that. And even his resignation was bitch ass. You know, I just I just look at him and I think, bro, this Keir Starmer, I've never seen his biography, but I bet he's never been into looking at wartime rulers, going to the gym, strengthening himself. I'm thinking, bro, you're the leader of the UK, which was once the great British Empire. I mean, these ancestors are rolling in their graves, bro, looking at someone like that. You know, I look up to people like Lee Kwan Yu of Singapore. I don't know if you know who he was, the person who took Singapore from slums to riches. He was a very pragmatic man, a logical man, but he understood that sometimes you have to rule with an iron fist. And Keir Starmer, with his suicidal empathy, has allowed for that part of the world to go from the best place in the world to just a fucking disaster in so many areas. Don't get me wrong, if you got money, still good spots. You know, a lot of what you see online, same with Western Europe and Australia, is a little bit curated. Uh, people that haven't been to the UK or Germany or Australia might think there's just Africans and Arabs and extremist Muslims everywhere killing people. That's not really the case. But I don't think anyone, anyone is saying it's better now. Is it is there anyone that's saying it's better now than it once was? Because you know, it's it's not us, I'm not saying it.

SPEAKER_02 56:46

But you know, tell me, I mean, you you you say um the the world needs people like us, you know, people like you, yeah, um, to uh to fight to fight against these laws that need changing, these rules that need changing. And I would say, I mean, whether or not there's more people you know like you now, or whether it's just uh you know things like social media amplify more people. Um but you know there's there's there's a lot of strong-willed characters out there now that are putting their, you know, let's say putting their name or reputation on on the line to stand up for what they believe in. But also at the same time, I would say that we're getting more and more soft and more and more left. And you know, for for for every new package there is, we we don't seem to move forward. You know, we we we seem to keep going more left and more weak. I mean, how how and when does it ever get fixed? It it

Politics, Decline, And Rock Bottom Theory

SPEAKER_02 57:37

needs to get way worse.

SPEAKER_00 57:38

I think this is the part that people don't quite understand. If you look at history, there were times where society needs to reach rock bottom first before they listen to someone like me. More people are accepting of my views now than five years ago, but it's just not bad enough yet. The truth of the matter is, if you go to Australia, the average living standard of even the people disgruntled at the government, it's not that bad. It's just not that bad. I've traveled around the world and there are some fucked up places. When it gets that bad, then people will look to people like me. You think it will get that bad? It will, it will, because it is in that managed decline. It's it's going down that trajectory. So there has to come a turning point. I don't know how bad it needs to get, but there has to be a turning point. And in order for there to be a turning point, you need to have a man or a group of men that are the people that change things. And at that point of change, you have to speak up against. You have to sound controversial at the time, even though in the future it's going to be common sense. I don't think any of my views are controversial at all. Not a single view of mine, do I believe, is controversial? None. Zero. I can't think of a single one. The other day I posted this reel. I said, if you took a hundred thousand Sudanese men and a hundred thousand Japanese men, and there was a gun to your head, you had to choose which group would commit more of these unprovoked violent crimes. Everyone was like, of course, the Sudanese people. And I was like, Yeah, but you think that's obvious. But these lefties don't think that. Pipples. Pipples, not all of them, go and bite people and other dogs, but pitpls bite more people than I don't know, little cavoodles. And the smart people understand the nuance because you can't separate race from genes, from culture, from environment. It all matters. But if you go to somewhere like a Japan and you say that, they'll just say, Yeah, of course. That's why we don't fucking let them in. We're Japanese. You can call us racist, we don't give a fuck. And over there in Eastern Europe, it's quite similar. So what's happening in the West, where people think my views are controversial, they're not controversial in Japan and in Croatia. In Croatia, I'm a Croatian citizen. What I say is just normal. There's like heaps of guys like me. They're like, yeah, this is fucked. This is retarded. We know, we get it. There's no debate. People think there's some hot topic of debate. Like, I'm I'm so controversial, I'm not. To me, it's just common sense.

SPEAKER_02 1:00:18

Do you think you could put a timeline on how long it how long it will be till we do hit rock bottom?

SPEAKER_00 1:00:23

Yeah, probably not even while I'm still alive. I was gonna say, do you think it'll be in our lifetime? So it's like a five-year, fifty year. 50 years is nothing, isn't it, when it comes to history. If you have a look at how empires have um, you know, gone up and then gone down. Typically it takes, well, let's take my fave, one of my faves, the Roman Empire. I think where Marcus Aurelius thought that, you know, is this the end of Great Rome? It still takes, you know, decades and decades before it actually falls apart and the Ottomans come in and take over more. It just takes much longer than we think. And again, with the whole impatience thing, you'll have a lefty say something like, see, five years ago it was fine. You said it was gonna fail. And I'm like, bro, it's five years because you cunts don't have any kids. That's the thing. Once you have kids, you're already thinking 50 years in the future. My next daughter is going to be born in August. So I'm already thinking about her being this white, blue-eyed, beautiful girl living in these societies where all of these immigrants are coming in in 20 years and 30 years. And then what about her kids? Bro, I guess if you're that selfish and you're living in mum's basement, sure, it's not gonna affect you, bro. Nothing fucking real.

Immigration, Culture, And Belonging

SPEAKER_02 1:01:32

What is an immigrant to you, though? I mean, obviously, I guess the the the definition of the word is is basically any anyone immigrating, but I mean, I mean, you know, would you have an issue with all the English people migrating to Croatia?

SPEAKER_00 1:01:44

It's a great question. The only reason I use a very subjective word like immigrants is because people know exactly who I'm talking about. That's why I'm well aware that my father's an immigrant of Australia. We are all descendants of immigrants. I get it. I'm talking about the immigrants who fuck shit up, not the immigrants who make it a place everyone wants to visit. For example, I'll frame it to you like this. If Australia was not colonized by immigrants, would Australia be a place where everyone in the world would want to visit? Yes or no? The answer is obviously fucking no, because before they got there, the indigenous people hadn't built out a civilization people would want to visit. The English came there, whether they did the amount of terrible things some people say they did or didn't, it doesn't actually change the fact that they built a place, that they embedded technologies that the rest of the world have copied. How many places around the world have copied common law, civil infrastructure, so many things, you know, post-industrial revolution from the Brits. Everyone, any civilization that's good has copied the technology that came from that group. And so, of course, if English people come to Australia, obviously we want them because we're basically the same, we're all the same. I I said this to my friend in Georgia. I said, you've got a lot of Ukrainians and Russians coming, as well as some from the Balkans. And to some of them, they think they're very different. There are some differences. But I said, listen, bro, arguing over who invented Jav is one thing. But when you see Tenduri chicken mate, that's a very different ball game. An Indian person in every way, shape, and form is much more different to a Georgian versus Ukrainian versus Russian, even those two who are at war, and I understand that wounds are very fresh, obviously, they're just so similar. And there are just some ethnic groups that will never get along with us.

SPEAKER_02 1:03:50

Do you have do you have friends in some of those ethnic groups that you're so vocal about? Indians, for example. You have some Indian friends?

SPEAKER_00 1:03:58

I will they're they're friends, but not close friends, and those Indians agree with me. They have Indian fatigue. My friend said this, he goes, My my family came from India to Australia to get away from India because India was fucked. That's why they come to Australia. So if you bring what's happening in India to Australia, it will look more like India. There must be a reason people want to go to Australia in the first place, because it feels very Australian. So if you if you just continue to bring those ethnicities to Australia, what actually defines Australia then after a while? I said this the other day. This is the most controversial thing I've said, which I still don't think is controversial. My friend said, Why Georgia? Why not Vienna? I said, Well, Vienna started to become more Arab, more African. He's like, Really? I said, Yeah. I said, when I go walk our daughter through the park in Georgia, it's just mostly white people, mostly like 99%. He's like, isn't that racist? And I was like, you can call it what you want, but it's homophily. You're in a group of people that are more like you in every way, shape, and form. I said, I put it to you like this. If your apartment building here, there's about 100 odd apartments, was 95 families were um British, let's say, and then five were a mixed bag, Indians, Africans, whatever, you wouldn't care. All right, I wouldn't care. But if I was the only white person and everyone else was Sudanese or Indian, and I'm smelling tandori spices and everything going through the hallways, they're playing their bongos. It's your music, it's your music, it's your causing, but I don't want to live in that. I don't want to exterminate people, I don't hate people, I don't want to harm them. I just don't want to participate in a building where I'm the minority. I don't want to participate in a society where the vast majority of people in Australia don't look Australian. That's that's as simple as it goes. It has very little to actually do with the fact that some of these ethnic groups are more violent to innocent kids. I mean, that happens, but I can afford it. Avoid it. I got money. But I just don't want to drive through Harris Park and see all these Indian restaurants. I want to see Aussies having snags in the Barbie with our humour, our accent, our fashion. I don't want to see hijabs. I understand why they wear hijabs. I understand why they cover their face. I don't want to see it though. Not in abundance. Is that not normal?

SPEAKER_02 1:06:25

But when you when you go to Dubai, because I know you're a fan of Dubai, and I mean you're not going to see as many hijabs there as you would somewhere else. But I mean, do you do you still feel as strongly about it in those kind of places where that is their hometown?

SPEAKER_00 1:06:38

Yes, I actually do. It's one of the reasons why, even at the time when I moved to Dubai, it wasn't an all-year place. Dubai isn't an all-year place for most people. It's too hot right now. So for most of us, we're going there in November to February. Yeah. But I did try an area in Natalshiba where it's basically just hijabs and conduras. After a while, and these are the most pleasant people to be around, the Emirates. After a while, you just know you don't fit in. You just know you don't fit in, but especially your missus don't fit in, and especially your daughters don't fit in because they don't dress that way. And after a while, you realize ah, we have the best cohort here of people that are in Kanduras and hijabs, the nicest people, the most civil, clean people you can think of, and still you just know you're not them. Which is why people typically congregate with people that are similar to them. Are there people that love the whole multicultural thing? They go around India, they wear the clothes. Okay, it's not me. That's why I'm over there in Europe for the majority of the time.

Best Places To Live And Air Quality

SPEAKER_00 1:07:45

It's just easier as well.

SPEAKER_02 1:07:47

So, what so what's your top top two or three places places to live to live and stand? Obviously, like you say, you know, you you've got money, you don't have to be confined to just one place, but uh you also probably don't want to be on the move 12 times a year either. So two or three places.

SPEAKER_00 1:08:02

That's a good question. I'll say Coral Gables in Miami. Okay, I'll say Tbilisi, Georgia, and have been there for a while, but before I left East Sydney, right on the coast. Yeah, but I guess East Sydney is changing as well now. I I need to be in a place where it's 90% white people. Literally, that's what I say. I need to be in a place where there's 90% white people. I have black clients, Indian clients, but I wouldn't want to live in a suburb where it's 5% white people and 95% black people.

SPEAKER_02 1:08:39

So so but Bali and Dubai aren't on aren't on that top three list then?

SPEAKER_00 1:08:43

Uh no. Uh two reasons why. The air quality has become a big issue lately. Here, it's so sad because now that I have young daughters, they want to play outside. For me, I'm a homebody. I'm in here streaming, I've got the air purifiers everywhere here, but they want to go outside. And if you see on the air quality monitor how bad this air has become even from a year ago, it's shocking.

SPEAKER_02 1:09:07

I mean, I've never even really heard about it until I've seen you posting about it recently. But uh it's bad, man.

SPEAKER_00 1:09:14

You've got to ask yourself, why would you want to give your kids less than you had? I grew up in Australia. Clean water, clean air. Now, this is not intentional, but this is the outcome. It doesn't change the outcome. The fact of the matter is, if I put my daughter outside on a day, and 80% of the days are like this, where the air quality is that bad, I am shoving cigarettes down her throat. She doesn't know that. A lot of people don't know that, but once you see it, now you can't unsee it. Now you're gonna go and get that air quality, uh air quality reading, send it to a scientist, and a scientist is gonna say, Yeah, that ain't good. That ain't good for you. And then you're gonna try and justify the fact that no, you know, it's not so he's gonna say, nah, it's bad. And what are they burning off? Oh, they're burning off plastics, they're burning off waste, it's not just rice fields, they're literally burning off dioxides into the air, and there are so many reels where you can see it, and I've seen it. I just at what point, if someone is trying to convince me that barley is a healthy place to live, especially if you're spending time outside, at what point is that just BS? You're breathing air all day. You you can't avoid it with the water. You can close your mouth, get a filter. You can't avoid the air, and Dubai is the same. The air quality in Dubai is terrible. It's not just the desert, industrial pollutants as well.

SPEAKER_02 1:10:34

I got my blood cleaned recently. First time I'd done it, and you know, when when they extract uh extract all the bad plasma and everything, had it sent off and analyzed, and um, and you know, I guess for someone who doesn't look, I mean, I've barely I mean I don't do drugs, I've barely touched one in my life, you know, certainly not for 15 plus years. Um, you know, never had a cigarette in my life. Um, you know, not a bit not a big drinker. Don't I'm not eating red meat for 35 years, all these other things that you think of as as toxins. Um, but the shit that was in that bag, the micro plastics, the um the um heavy metals, etc. And you know, when I'm so well, where are these coming from? And and you know, they're explaining it's just like off-car wheels and steering wheels and air and it's bad, bro.

SPEAKER_00 1:11:21

I mean, I love Bali, I'm here, I've still got this lease, but you know, I've had this epiphany in the last few months, and I guess people on the internet they love calling someone out, see what he said a year ago, and I'll say, Yeah, I said that, I changed my fucking mind. I don't care. See, I don't care about what people are gonna say, and if tomorrow something happens in Tbilisi, I'll change my mind again because I don't have any patriotism, because A, I don't come from countries where being a patriot will serve you because loyalty shifts based on incentives. How are we gonna be patriots of Australia at this point? Like, really, I'm gonna be a patriot and then get locked up. Thanks for being a patriot, mate. I'm the enemy to our government, I am a disgrace to the Australian government, you understand? So we have nothing in common. Me and my government have nothing in common. So the idea of being a patriot is just not a thing. And then Croatia, let's be honest, it's part of the EU. They don't have any say. Maybe there are things locally that they can do, but they're not autonomous in the sense that they are their own sovereign nation anymore. And that goes for all of those countries in that region. That's for Ursula in the EU Council and the Germans who basically control it all. And it's fucked, and we know it's fucked, and we've watched it get more fucked, living there in Europe. So to be a patriot, it's sort of like if you're Australian and you're a patriot, you're a bit of a fool. You're a bit of a fool. They're using you, they're going to use you in times of warfare to sacrifice your body, literally, and not do anything. And you can see a lot of ex-veterans in Australia are very unhappy about how things have turned out because they know they risked their life. What for this? They know that their father and their father's father would be turning in their grave, thinking this is what we've got now.

SPEAKER_02 1:13:19

You say you you've got um a um a Georgian Croatian passport, Georgian passport and an Aussie passport.

Second Passports And Future Uncertainty

SPEAKER_02 1:13:25

Yep. I'm pretty sure I've seen you talk talk online uh about you know um being an advocate for other passports or other citizenships. Have you got any others other than those two? Would you get any others?

SPEAKER_00 1:13:35

Yeah, in the process of getting St. Lucia.

unknown 1:13:37

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 1:13:37

Yeah. So you can go to the Caribbean, it's a good option because you can travel to a lot of come uh a lot of countries. But keep in mind, um, if you are someone with a criminal record, those Caribbean passports you're not gonna get. So you want to be allowed into the USA, have no serious criminal record. Otherwise, as long as you can pass that test, which a lot of guys that come to me don't, that's why I'm saying it. A lot of guys that come to me because the face tattoos they think I'm gonna help them out. Or how do I do crypto like this, bro, on the cuff? You you must understand that these um passport programs or the CBI program over there in St. Lucia, you need to be clean as a whistle. Yeah. So if you can't get into the USA, you're not getting a Caribbean passport.

SPEAKER_02 1:14:17

What why do why do you want a third? Because I assume I mean an Aussie one and a Croatia one from a uh from a trouble perspective. I mean, that they're gonna give you as good as everything you need, aren't they? So I assume I assume we're worrying about the future.

SPEAKER_00 1:14:32

Yeah, yeah, it's sort of an experiment because a lot of my clients are doing it, and also the more you can collect the better. I mean, if you see Peter Thiel, uh, you know, Peter Thiel, he just has so many of them. I don't think there's any real rational reason why, but he's got Malta and Argentina and New Zealand. It's sort of like, why not? It's one, it's mainly one of them, but you do have that geographical diversification if you need it. Um, I wouldn't say that there's anything imminent that would make me want to have three passports or four passports, but if I can easily have 10, it's kind of just cool, isn't it?

SPEAKER_02 1:15:10

But I guess you like so nothing imminent, but these are the things that you need before you want them before you need them, and uh you know they're only gonna get more expensive as well.

SPEAKER_00 1:15:20

Yeah, yeah. I think if you can have 10 passports like a billionaire, why not have them? You know, I don't I don't know what's gonna happen in the EU. I've long predicted that it'll break up, and I think the cracks are already there. And if Iran puts it to the US like they have been, well, that's a very interesting position for the UK and Australia, isn't it? Because effectively we are their their cousin or their their little bitch in many ways, Australia at least. If Iran proves to the world that the USA can't protect you, because the Gulf states are learning right now, aren't they? They're learning right now that the USA can't protect them as well as the USA claimed, well then that's gonna open the eyes of the Chinese, of the other powers, obviously over there in the Middle East, and maybe they maybe they take a look at Australia, the Chinese, certainly Taiwan, or maybe it's Taiwan first, and then they have a look at Australia and they say, hey, that iron ore mate, uh the Yanks are not coming to save you. We would like some extra power and extra influence about how you do things in this region, and those those days are not too far away. Um, I think 10 years ago a lot of people thought that was conspiracy, but now it's sort of like maybe, and that completely um changes the the strength of your Australian passport, doesn't it?

SPEAKER_02 1:16:46

You

Face Tattoos And Not Fitting In

SPEAKER_02 1:16:47

mentioned your your face tattoos. I'm always fascinated um with um let's say the the the the lot the logic behind them. How long how long have you had those?

SPEAKER_00 1:16:56

Oh like six years now the face tattoos, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:16:59

And have you had times with regret on them, or do you think you'll regret them in the future? And I and I I guess I ask it as I had this conversation with someone in the sauna in the gym about about a month or so ago, and it's because it's you put never ask it about any other body part, but you know that that the fake the face is such a you know, I mean it's the fucking face. What can you say? It's like people go, oh well, you know, what if you regret that tattoo you've done on your arm or you've got your ex on there? Big fucking deal. A it was a moment in time and I don't regret it, and B, I'll put a jumper on, you know, no big deal. Yeah, face is a bit more uh a bit more problematic, a lot more.

SPEAKER_00 1:17:32

I must say, I mean, I mean two words to start off with. I kind of enjoy having to start in a hole with everyone. So no matter what I do, the moment I meet someone, I just start in a hole with them. He's tattooed his face. Who is this guy? He's impulsive, we can't trust him. So I've got to slowly climb myself out. That's kind of a nice challenge. Quite like it. The second thing that I think about is I don't really think about it. I don't think about it because it's not something that I even see on my body anymore or my family sees. The conversation only ever comes up on social media. Before that, I never considered myself a looker or someone that really cared about his appearance to that level. So for me, it's like whether I have face tattoos or not, my my face isn't anything. My face isn't even like part of me. I could probably do all this with a mask on. So it's yeah, it's more like I'll just put a jumper on. But thirdly, um, if I could just press a button and take them off now, would I? Yeah. Well, what is that? What does that mean? Uh, I can't even remember. This one is protestas, this one here says ferro, and then there's a few little symbols. There's no real meaning behind them or most of my tattoos.

SPEAKER_02 1:18:46

But when you did these though, were you because obviously you had you had a decision of what body part to put that on, were you doing that with the let's say the controversial um uh mindset and I'm gonna go make a fucking point.

SPEAKER_00 1:19:00

Um, yeah, yes and no. When you're in the tattoo industry, they're not super common, but they're pretty common. That's the first thing. So if you're in the tattoo industry, having a face tattoo, yeah, don't get me wrong, most people don't get them, but a lot of people do. So I'm in the tattoo industry, so it's more common for me. The second thing is yes, I definitely have some anti-establishment, you know, ODD, you know, opposition defiant disorder. I want to not look like you, I want to not do what you do. So if I tattoo my face, I can separate myself more from you guys. I I hate blending in. That will obviously, you know, be attention seeking. That's the opposite to not wanting to blend in. But I just like that I don't have an archetype. You you can't put me in a bucket, it you just can't, and I love that. I love that I can't be put into a bucket. I know that what comes out of my mouth doesn't match how I look. There are just things I do in the day that people can't quite figure me out, and I like that. And I guess if I didn't have the face tattoos, I would look a little bit more plain. You know, that's what people that are normal don't understand. They go, look at this idiot, this clown with face tattoos, and I'm and I'm thinking in my head, yeah, great. Because now I'm just not like you. Mediocrity to me is just I can't stand it. I can't stand anyone that will repeat something someone else said that's really vanilla. Like if I see a reel where someone is clearly copying someone else that said the same thing over and over, I think, why, bro? You're just blending in. You've even got the same strobe light at the back. It's the teal one with the purple. The whole the reel looks the same, your thumbnail looks the same, you're the same, you're the same, you're just blending in. I can't stand being like that.

SPEAKER_02 1:20:51

Well, look, I could have this conversation for hours and hours, and I hope uh I hope we're gonna do we're gonna do some more of these sometime either before you leave Bali or somewhere else in the

What’s Next And Buying Bitcoin Now

SPEAKER_02 1:21:00

world. But uh just uh I guess to leave my guys in the meantime with you know what's what's what's next for Daniel, whether that's life, business, location, more kids.

SPEAKER_00 1:21:12

I'd like 10.

SPEAKER_02 1:21:13

I was gonna say you've got one on the way. You have you have one already and one on the way. You're 10.

SPEAKER_00 1:21:19

I'd like 10. You know, you have three or four sons. Three of them are probably gonna be losers, let's be honest. You know, I want one son to inherit the empire, so to speak. Take the Bitcoin. Yeah, you know, game of probabilities, uh, more kids, and then when it when Bitcoin eventually does get to a place where I have enough capital that's meaningful, I'd like to do something actively again to not only keep myself occupied, but change the world for better, maybe really go after something that the world needs. I don't know what it might be, whether it whether it be in AI or robotics, but I want to be a startup. I don't want to be an SME. The difference between an SME like I have, it's a tried and trusted, boring model. It makes money, but it's not a startup. Startup is when you start something that's never been started before, and then you make the world a better place, you know, whether it be SpaceX or Uber or Uber Eats or fully self-driving cars. So I'd like to either be a part of something like that or investing in someone else's thing.

SPEAKER_02 1:22:20

And tell me, um, because obviously you you you've you've got your Bitcoin from old uh and you bought it at many of these very cheap prices, but do you still do you still buy Bitcoin today at today's prices? You know, you earn money from Stripe, for example, uh, you go and buy Bitcoin.

SPEAKER_00 1:22:36

Yeah, I sold an apartment, I think it was November 2025, bought Bitcoin with that, sold my car in Dubai recently, bought Bitcoin with that, and that was after that first dip, down to 60.

SPEAKER_02 1:22:47

Are you tracking a price to buy it a price point? Or if I gave you X amount of money today, would you happily go and buy it after that? You're not saying, oh, I need if I think in a month or so this might be a bit cheaper. You don't give a fuck. You just because you're buying for the long, long, long-term horizon.

SPEAKER_00 1:23:02

As long as it's less than 100, I'm buying it. Right. As long as it's less than 100k, I'm buying it. After 100k, I'm thinking, ah, I've got enough. But less than 100k, I'm buying Bitcoin. And every time I'm able to buy Bitcoin, I'll buy Bitcoin.

SPEAKER_02 1:23:14

And when's it going back over 100k? Do you think?

SPEAKER_00 1:23:17

Um this year. Don't know, care less, but if the gun is to my head, sometime next year, maybe late next year. Just to just to guess. It's not based on the four-year cycle or anything like that. I just think that moods are important, and right now this mood needs to shake out. But I hope to be wrong. I hope it's 100k in a few months. Next week.

SPEAKER_02 1:23:38

Yeah. Listen, Dan, it's been a pleasure, buddy. Thank you very much. Thank you.