Naked Truths #5: Stress, Depression & Are You Happy? | Jamie White

In these ‘Naked Truths,’ I’ll be spotlighting my favourite, most impactful moments from past episodes of Stripping Off with Matt Haycox. These are the moments that hit hardest, offer the most value, and deserve to be heard again.

Most people confuse not caring with being fine. Jamie White thinks that's depression.

In this Naked Truth, Matt and Jamie trace the line between genuine resilience and putting a brave face on - moving from a real conversation about a friend who couldn't change, through Jamie's theory on what depression actually does when you let it run its course, to Matt's admission that two and a half years of legal battles and chronic illness probably tested that line more than he's let on. Jamie's conclusion: Matt hasn't just survived stress. He's been training for it his whole life. The question is whether that's genius or self-inflicted chaos - and whether any of it matters if the answer to "are you happy?" is still yes.

Chapters
0:00 - Intro
0:05 - Why Most People Don't Change
3:53 - Matt's Darkest Period: Legal Battles & Resilience
9:40 - Are You Actually Happy? The Binary Question

Transcript

Priorities And The Truth About Change

SPEAKER_01 0:05

To me it just comes down to a down to a matter of priorities or or or or false priorities as well. I'll give you two two examples of things, yeah. I mean, um both conversations that have been real in my life with people, and not with me, but for the other people. So another overweight guy I know, grossly overweight. Um, you know, we were sat at a dinner, he's there with his missus, lovely, pretty, attractive girl. And I was talking to him saying, What's going on with the weight? And he's like, Great friend. I love this. That's why Matt. I'm like, oh, brilliant. We need people that give us this shit. And he's like, Oh, well, you know, not not much. Yeah, I've not been losing any. I'm saying, so have you been going to the gym? No, no, I've been busy for the gym. What about the boxing? I I saw you doing a bit of boxing before. How's how's the box carrying on with the boxing? Oh no, the the boxing is it's a long way away, it's like 40 minutes from me. Can't find some a bit closer to home? No, no. So, what about the um the testosterone doctor? I introduced you to him. Oh, it's a pain taking all those injections. What about this? I don't want to do about seven or eight things, I'm getting depressed just hearing the fucking answers. So let me ask you another question. I mean, does it not bother you that you're grossly overweight? And he just looks at me and goes, nah, he goes, I don't really care, to be honest. I said, well, then end of conversation. I says, because because I can suggest all the things in the world, but until you actually give a fuck, then you know what what is going to change? Nothing's gonna change if you are genuinely not bothered about the way you look, then nothing's gonna

Depression As A Trigger For Action

SPEAKER_01 1:40

change. And another say different but similar thing.

SPEAKER_00 1:42

No, no, hold that actually, that example, because that's a really good example, and there's a hole in that. Um, that person is depressed.

SPEAKER_01 1:50

I I would I would I I would I would say you can't possibly be happy like that, you're just convincing yourself you are.

SPEAKER_00 1:56

So actually, depression, like depression is so unbelievably misunderstood, and in that depression debilitates you from taking action, the small things become really hard, and you go on essentially a downward spiral where things get even harder, you get more and more sedate, more and more indecisive, it becomes harder to take action. But if you can sit with the depression, well, a lot of people they kind of like they they kind of hold themselves in that state. But in actual fact, if you can just go through the process of depression, generally speaking, what it will do is it will bring you to a shit or get off the can moment of like this is how bad this is gonna get. What are you gonna do about it? And it in that can fire up a big decision. So, you know, for example, say somebody finds themselves in a toxic relationship, and they let's say they fight the toxic relationship and they try to pretend it's great, and it just keeps going around in this plateau. But in actual thing, if if you can just actually just accept it, gets so bad to the point that there's an internal reflex that goes, fuck you, actually, fuck you, I'm fucking out of here. Brilliant. That's depression on its right cycle where it brings you to this point of action. Most people fight it though, and they fight it and they stay in the loop of depression. And this person is let's say stuck in that. Now, I I hopefully something will point, come to some point where there's a trigger and there's an action taken, but until that point, the person keeps just descending and descending and descending and descending. And I find this really interesting that again, you asked about when people come to me, why did I emphasize so much that I push them back? Are they ready to come to that point where they say, Fuck you? If they are brilliant, you'll do great work together.

SPEAKER_01 3:49

If they're not, they still need to go on their depression, their depression, and keep are we are we kind of saying the same thing, but without me, let's say, defining it as as depression? Because you're saying you'll keep going that spiral until something's changed and it's like fuck you, I'm I'm doing it. And I guess I'm saying, I mean, obviously I don't understand the depression side of things, but I'm saying until you want to fucking change, not not nothing's going to change.

SPEAKER_00 4:14

It's really

Dark Seasons And The Body Under Stress

SPEAKER_00 4:15

interesting. You said you don't understand depression. Would you say you've never had depression?

SPEAKER_01 4:19

Um I would I mean I don't know, I I don't know what we define depression as, you know. Have I had dark days over my life? I'd probably say I've had my darkest days over the last couple of years. Um have I considered myself depressed? I mean, I don't know, that's it depends how you look at it. Like the you know, 18 months ago, I mean, you know, as as you know, and it's not the world's best kept secret, I've been embroiled in a pretty smelly legal battle for the last two two, two and a half years. And there was periods of time, two or three months at a time, where I was ill and I w I could just I I was just never getting better. I don't mean I'd what does that illness look like? Well, because I don't mean I'm sat in the hospital bed fucking on a ventilator, but what I mean is I had flu, I couldn't kick, you know, headaches I could I I I couldn't kick, uh, and I'm not an ill person. Constipation or diarrhea? I don't think so, no. Neither.

SPEAKER_00 5:16

Interesting. I can't remember. I mean I I like a good people. Uh I don't know. There's a great space called mind-body medicine where essentially it reflects every symptom to kind of an emotional issue. And generally speaking, men, we hold on to shit, right? Our we can't lit we literally can't hold on to it. So it can becomes can be sometimes quite uh identifying in terms of where where you're at. But like you, you're you're a fascinating person, man. Like it's a lot of lot of complete losers that have podcasts that are their lives are so fucking boring that there's nothing to take from their podcasts. But you are fucking fascinating. And you've lived an enormity of extremes. I I there's a part of me that thinks I need to share, but given how much you've shared on this podcast, I'm like, I don't know, he probably has shared it all so anyone listening knows. But it's it's funny that you can't actually like you you could say, Oh, I've gone through absolute hell, but you can't say that actually you've experienced, let's say, long-term depressive states over months. That just hasn't been the case for you. Amazing.

SPEAKER_01 6:16

I mean, like I I always think I I probably always say that I'm upbeat, oh, I'm optimistic, and I but I think the reality is, you know, if I look back over the last 20-30 years, you know, it's probably more putting a brave face on than than the fact that I don't get down or I don't don't get depressed. And I think like if if we talk about what I was saying a minute ago, you know, about being literally ill for you know two or three months at a time, I I guess that's probably the same kind of situation I've had in the rest of my life. It's just that it was longer and harder and and probably harder for me to put a brave face on because I mean everyone can tolerate different things and so

Building Stress Capacity Without Self-Sabotage

SPEAKER_01 7:01

much, can't they? And I you know, I always look at stress as a muscle and you know dealing with negative negative things things as a muscle. And I guess you know, the more you train that muscle, you know, the more it happens to you, the more um what's the word? Resil resilient you become to dealing with it.

SPEAKER_00 7:15

That's exactly true. That essentially the more stress you can hold, the more success you can invite into your life. The whole world is, let's say, obsessed with this idea of I want a stress-free life. But the only thing is that's impossible. And if you don't train yourself to be good at metabolizing and dealing with stress, unfortunately you get worse at it. And so you become more sensitive and life gets on top of you all the better. But you, by the sense of what you've just shared, have constantly been immersing yourself in stress, building your stress capacity, which allows you to go through bigger shit and go through it faster, then, right?

SPEAKER_01 7:49

But I think I think as well as there's two sides or a couple of learnings, you know. Do I think that you know people should man up and and get better at dealing with stress and go through things? I I do. Good, great, we should, absolutely. But uh because I think you know the reality is you know, most people they think they're soft, they think they've experienced stress, I mean they don't know what a fucking bad day is, you know? They've got a parking ticket and ruins their fucking day. I mean, please.

SPEAKER_00 8:13

If you went to a let's say a protest of woke, vegan anarchist types, and you were actually really challenged into that, you'd find that I would say a lot of that comes from being overly soft and overly sensitive as a result. And if only people actually challenge themselves a little bit more, they'd be less sensitive and we'd be less plagued by their drama.

SPEAKER_01 8:33

But what I would say in my own personal circumstances is you know, whilst I've let's say been good at dealing with stress and getting deeper and deeper amounts of stress I can cope with, a lot of it's been self-inflicted, a lot of it's been unnecessary. And you know, when when you were saying, you know, everyone wants a stress-free life and an easy life, and it's just an unrealistic work, you know, unrealistic concept. But I do think we can control the levels of stress that we that we bring to ourselves and and not and not do things unnecessarily. And I know in my personal circumstance, you know, that means things like you know, being unfocused, taking on too many different businesses, saying yes to too many things, yeah, for for example.

SPEAKER_00 9:19

But as you're saying this, I'm actually thinking perhaps this is your secret source. Perhaps you, who has self-inflicted a whole ton of drama, was actually using that, or the byproduct of that was a greater stress capacity, so that when other shit that wasn't necessarily self-inflicted came along, you sailed through it, unlike so many others that would have been bowled over it. Why? Because you just created so much shitty drama. Like anyway, this is perhaps your edge.

SPEAKER_01 9:46

Perhaps, but you know, if I could rew rewire the last 25 years, you know, would I do things differently? Yeah, I would. Would you though? I would I would. Well, hold that. Hold that because well, uh what I would say that listen, I'm not someone who who goes down these roads of what you know, would I do things differently? I mean, like if if someone was if you want to ask me the hypothetical question, yes, I'd do things differently, but then again, I also very much live in the present and the future and say I wouldn't be here if it wasn't for everything that I've been in for the last

The Simple Test: Proud And Happy

SPEAKER_01 10:16

year.

SPEAKER_00 10:16

So hold that. Can you sit here right now? Are you proud of yourself?

SPEAKER_01 10:20

Overall, yeah. I mean, I've I've I've done some things I'm not proud of, but overall, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 10:24

Overall, yeah. You happy.

unknown 10:28

All right.

SPEAKER_01 10:29

You see, if if if if happy is a binary thing, then yes, I'm happy.

SPEAKER_00 10:33

Okay, just answer it simple. Let me ask it again. Are you happy?

unknown 10:36

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 10:37

To experience happiness. Yes. Yeah. Matt, there's not actually a lot of people that can say yes. There's not a lot of people that can sit there and go, I'm proud of myself.

SPEAKER_01 10:46

And so as but do you not think it that there's a there's an oversimplification to that by making it a binary yes or no, are you proud, yes or no? Are you happy, yes or no?

SPEAKER_00 10:55

And if we actually started to put it on a scale, we could be what is very well described as complete dickheads and argue that point, right? But it actually is a nice little quick check-in, are you happy? Just to see how somebody reacts, just to see what somebody has, you could absolutely nullify the question, go for it. But for you to sit there and say, Yeah, I'm proud of myself, and yeah, I am happy, it's hugely indicative of some really positive shit. And I think it's um I think it's important to acknowledge that and pat yourself on the back. Because if you shoot out over the course of your course of your day and ask a few people like that and see how many people will really struggle and cannot say yes, you it's all the more reason to take some pride.